- Collection:
- Veterans History Project: Oral History Interviews
- Title:
- Oral history interview of Wallace Baldwin, Jr.
- Creator:
- Goldfarb, Stephen
Baldwin, Wallace, Jr., 1930- - Date of Original:
- 2003-11-19
- Subject:
- Korean War, 1950-1953--Personal narratives, American
Draft--United States
African American soldiers--Civil rights
Mathis, Johnny
Sutton, Roswell, 1920-2009
Manning, Archie (Elisha Archibald), 1949-
Powell, Colin L.
Bell, Griffin B., 1918-2009
Rucker, Walter
Young, Whitney M.
United States. Army
United States. Army. Reserve
Morehouse College (Atlanta, Ga.)
University of San Francisco
United States. Post Office Department
Florida State University
United States. Army Criminal Investigation Command
Atlanta Housing Authority
Atlanta Regional Commission
United States. Army Reserve School (East Point, Ga.), 568th FCO
United States. Servicemen's Readjustment Act of 1944
Integration in the military - People:
- Jackson, Maynard, 1938-2003
- Location:
- United States, California, San Francisco County, Presidio of San Francisco, 37.79704, -122.46713
United States, District of Columbia, Washington, 38.89511, -77.03637
United States, Florida, Hawthorne, 28.7613803, -81.8709132
United States, Georgia, 32.75042, -83.50018
United States, Georgia, Atlanta Metropolitan Area, 33.8498, 84.4383
United States, Georgia, DeKalb County, Camp Gordon, 33.795644, -84.22788
United States, Georgia, Fulton County, Fort McPherson, 33.70733, -84.43354
United States, Maryland, Anne Arundel County, Fort Meade, 39.10815, -76.74323
United States, Mississippi, Forrest County, Hattiesburg, 31.32712, -89.29034 - Medium:
- video recordings (physical artifacts)
mini-dv - Type:
- MovingImage
- Format:
- video/quicktime
- Description:
- In this interview, Wallace Baldwin describes his life in the United States Army during the Korean War. He was a member of the Army Reserves while it was still being integrated. In his later years, he also worked for the Army's CID and the Post Office during the Civil Rights Era.
Wallace Baldwin was in the United States Army during the Korean War.
WALLACE BALDWIN, JR. WWII Oral Histories November 19, 2003 Atlanta History Center Transcriber: Joyce Dumas [Tape 1, Side A] Interviewer: It is November nineteenth, two thousand three, approximately ten thirty in the morning. We're in the Atlanta History Center and today we are interviewing Mr. Wallace Baldwin. Mr. Baldwin, if you will identify yourself for the record and tell us a little bit about where you were born and that sort of thing we can get our interview started. Baldwin: My name is Wallace Baldwin, Junior. I was born Hawthorne, Florida. I'm the only child. My mother had a large family so I wasn't really lonesome in the process. There were thirteen [inaudible]. In fact, I'm older than most of her brothers and sisters. Go back to third generation of the family. From there, just the normal schools. Mother was a teacher, so after the second grade… Interviewer: Why don't you tell us the names of your parents? Baldwin: Wallace and Elmo [phonetic] M. Morris Senior. And I basically grew up in and around Hawthorne. The fact that my mother was a teacher at that time, they allowed persons to [inaudible] high school, so I had travel around when she was finishing her education. So I was told at one point to go to the same school early in the morning. She went in the afternoon. Interviewer: Where was this? Baldwin: This was in Palatka, Florida, which is within the same general geographic area of Florida. And that's the town…the only class I had. My mother teaching [inaudible] that would be the last one. Cause I was always the example. Interviewer: Tell us about high school. Baldwin: All right. After grade school I went to a private missionary school known as Pheasant [phonetic] Academy. It was outside of…north of Ocala, Florida, in [inaudible] Springs. [inaudible sentence] since high school there. Interviewer: [inaudible] military service Baldwin: No. I was seventeen years old when I came to Atlanta during the summer after high school. Interviewer: This is just after World War Two. Baldwin: Right. In high school…right after high school I had a scholarship to Florida A&M in track, but my pastor decided that that may not be the place for me. Given the fact that I know a lot of people [inaudible]. Pick out what to study. Anyhow, I came to Morehouse [inaudible]. I was a freshman in Morehouse first year. After that I sort of worked around jobs. The second year I was in school at the [inaudible] Institute. [inaudible] work so I sort of dropped out and went back home. Worked during the summer and came back to college again and by the time I got settled down and you know, to use the expression get your head screwed on right, I was drafted in the military. Interviewer: What year was that? Baldwin: That was nineteen fifty-one. Interviewer: Nineteen fifty-one. Baldwin: Yeah. Interviewer: So uh…then you…where did you…where were you inducted? Baldwin: Well, I was in…actually I had to go back to Florida, but they transferred my papers here somehow. I left Atlanta. Went to Fort Gordon, well, it wasn't Fort Gordon. It's Camp Gordon. I attempted to get in there. I wanted to go in the medical field. So at the time, I'd been reading about the situation in Korea and when I to Fort Gordon, they didn't need a psychiatric social worker, that's what I was thinking about majoring in, you know. And that's part of [inaudible] Morehouse with the school's social work that they had at that particular time. So I wound up in…I guess it came from some of my high school experience [inaudible] that kind of stuff and [inaudible]. I went into the field of radio repairmen and after basic training, of course. Interviewer: How tough was basic training? Baldwin: It was pretty tough cause it was a known fact at the time the way the war was going, that everyone would basically wind up [inaudible] basically what was happening. You had only one place to go once you finished basic training and in some instance you didn't even get a trade, you know, a specialty. You got it over there. I was one of the lucky ones. Cause most of the persons that started off with me, most of them took some sort of trade, maybe they were in different areas and so most of them went to Korea and unfortunately, most of them were killed. [inaudible] but the statistics of that war in comparison…short war but a lot of people were hurt. Interviewer: Let me ask you something. You took training. Where did you take the training? Baldwin: At Camp Gordon. Interviewer: [inaudible] Camp Gordon. How long did that last? Baldwin: It was about eighteen weeks with a night and day kind of thing. Getting ready to go [inaudible] They put night and day in the classroom. [inaudible] go out in the morning. You rest a little, then go back at night because they were really trying to push the signal corps [inaudible] try to establish a communications unit [inaudible] so forth. Spent a lot of time on studying terrain and difficulty, you know, they had over there fighting some of [inaudible]. I just [inaudible] experience of the…of the persons who were in active Army, 187th Airborne. Most of them jumped and they were killed in [inaudible] Europe. And we were getting, you know, all this [inaudible] difficult it would be. And given we did not have the normal infantry training became a factor [inaudible] communications. [inaudible] sort of…one thing you had to almost know as much as [inaudible] to know how to succeed in life, so. During that period of time, I sort of changed course. I said, “Well, God knows I had high school.” [inaudible] that kind of stuff, you know [inaudible] kind of stuff. They call it cryptography. So I volunteered for cryptography so that sort of caused [inaudible] going with the group that I came in with. Then by the time that they did the background and checked all the way back to you are four years old. [laughs] I mean they really went back and some people thought I was in trouble because when they went to get information background, checking on [inaudible] top secret clearance to be in that area… Interviewer: You did have top secret… Baldwin: Yes. [inaudible] so. What happened, the cryptographer kind of got bored, you know, waiting [inaudible] so I went to electronic background which I got there. I went to Fort Mead, Maryland, [inaudible]. That was the ordnance there. I took a short course there and ultimately I would up getting [inaudible] what they call an ordnance fire control technician. Interviewer: [inaudible] Baldwin: [inaudible] fire control technician wasn't necessarily what it means in terms of fire. There they had artillery weapons and guns that they used which would basically fire planes and knock them out of the air. We were technicians that would support their mission. So there we went through the radar sets and things that was gonna be used. They [inaudible] in the top [inaudible] see where they stand, you know, [inaudible], you know, things of that nature. In the meantime, we were…basically what happens…[inaudible] something happened to the equipment we would be responsible for keeping them on the air because in Washington you couldn't be out there…they don't [inaudible]. The [inaudible] was probably about four hours and then you had to really report that there was a weakness in the setup. Interviewer: About how long were you in Maryland? Baldwin: In Maryland? I guess I was there maybe four months or more. I don't know exactly. Interviewer: Did you have a rigorous training? Baldwin: Rigorous training. At that point, decided to send me to Japan. Interviewer: What time frame, 1952 yet? Baldwin: No, early part…[inaudible] fifty-two. We're still in nineteen fifty-two. So they decided at the last moment to send me to the signal school. That's what Camp Gordon [inaudible], in [inaudible], Japan. So I took a fast ride over. Interviewer: How'd you get there? Baldwin: Plane. Fast ride over and a fast ride back. All of a sudden started to set up the…[inaudible] Monday morning [inaudible] teach classes in radio…field radio repair, basic things in radio, AC and DC and the kind of things that they would need to know. All of a sudden I was flying back to the United States. I couldn't really figure out why. So I'm back landing in San Francisco. And I was actually assigned to an artillery group. And what happened, they had made a decision that the training I had in Maryland and the fact that the artillery, which was out of Texas, they weren't gonna necessarily use that equipment in Korea because of the…I guess because of the terrain, for one thing, and the kinds of Army equipment wasn't good at the time. It wouldn't be feasible to use it there. And the war was still going on. And I guess the decision being made whether they used [inaudible] whether they used Napalm. Subsequently they did in order to burn the enemy out of their mountains and . . . . What happened was, someone realized that the defense of the United States was similar to what's going on now with all the troops over there and then what about the defense over here. And so basically, it [inaudible] was to get in America. They sent those of us who had the training in addition to some who hadn't trained [inaudible] these artillery, part infantry groups. So I was assigned to San Francisco at the Presidio and others were assigned in Miami, New York and Seattle and other areas where possible enemy come in [sic]. And the artillery people were on the sites away from…well, in San Francisco they were away from the Presidio where we all basically, except in the hospital. They were called twin mountains, we call twin peaks, going north of San Francisco, south San Mateo. They had [inaudible] around there because while I was in Maryland they did have, I guess, the pre-runner of the jets. And they had guns on them. The kind of guns that the artillery, you would sit on. You know, actually they would sit on some of the faster planes get there…got under your radar, then [inaudible] cause [inaudible] and shooting. Interviewer: Were you trained on those guns? Baldwin: No, they showed all, you know, [inaudible] radar and some of the equipment from our [inaudible] and that's what equipment [inaudible]. Interviewer: [inaudible] Baldwin: [inaudible] in the van was watching it and we did have some tragic situation that happened by guys not sitting on, not buckled in [inaudible]. But the one point is which was the larger weapon, so we had the vans on the site. And with the artillery person, they had limited training so when something really happened on the range, we had to get out like TSOP, you know, irregardless of where he was in San Francisco, might be in the dinner or whatever the case might be. The MPs immediately come pick you up and escort you to the site and that's the way it was most of the time. It's the rare instance during the that time and yeah, I used to get paid, back then you get paid to line up. We were the only ones that really got paid by check because of the…no one really ever knew what we were doing cause it was civilian clothes most of the time. We did…I guess there's a plus to it to some extent in that we didn't have to worry about inspections and all that kind. We had to stay in the area, but basically we were either in the vans or if something had gone wrong and one of the sites in and around San Francisco, they'd get in parks and some instances, some of us were chosen to [inaudible] where they were building [inaudible] repairing and the shop by the way is right under the Golden Gate Bridge. In order not to delay us stay off the air [inaudible] had to get parts [inaudible] go back and get them off the assembly line. That's how critical it was at the time. So [inaudible] we would call critical [inaudible] subject to the extension. So I was able to stay right there in San Francisco until I was officially discharged to the [inaudible] stay over because of my MOS until somebody came and replaced me. Interviewer: How long did that take? Baldwin: It took almost sixty days. Interviewer: [inaudible] sixty days? Baldwin: Right. Interviewer: And they'd bring you up someone. Baldwin: Yeah. And they recruited…it wasn't a factor…I guess if I had taken the job at the time. I discussed with my parents taking the job at the time. Had to do it more or less as a civilian, doing almost the same thing [inaudible] so forth. [inaudible] come back and, you know, continue to teach and things like this. I'd gotten to know the town, San Francisco and the Bay area, and I was supposed to take some courses there. [inaudible] I took some courses at the University of San Francisco. That's where I first met Johnny Mathis. Few people know that. He was a track star [inaudible] courses in San Francisco from the University of California from Berkley. They had the bridge in between. Couldn't get over there like you can now. Things have changed considerably. And getting back to the [inaudible] Interviewer: Let me ask this question. Truman integrated the armed forces, I think, in forty… Baldwin: Forty…somewhere between forty-five and forty-eight. Interviewer: What was it like? It still must have had some bumps. Baldwin: Well, it had some bumps, not during the period that the war was going on. But I was surprised when I got back from my obligation. Probably ten years [inaudible] cause they really didn't know what was gonna happen at that time. So you always are on the alert to be called any moment at any time. Interviewer: Did you have to tell them when you… Baldwin: So when I came back, I said…I asked…I called to talk with the local reserve [inaudible] and I asked them what can I do to get my filed papers, so to speak. Can you get them before the ten years up and so what happened was, in this particular instance [inaudible] and explained how to do that. So [inaudible] the only that we have for you is a truck driver or a cook. Interviewer: Despite all of your… Baldwin: Despite the background and stuff of that nature. And [inaudible] may or may not be a paid slot, that's another thing. For at that time… Interviewer: This has been in the reserves. Baldwin: This was in Atlanta in the reserves. Interviewer: This was the reserves that was not integrated. Baldwin: Not at…[inaudible] not in Atlanta. Maybe in some places. [inaudible] was not in [inaudible]. So I didn't take too much exception to it other than object [inaudible] completed in time wouldn't [inaudible] needs to be. Of course, although I was proud, you know, I'd come to the realization after [inaudible] when I was in the Army that I was glad to serve the country and enjoyed the experience and if I had to do it, you know, [inaudible] I would. [inaudible] so I went through the process and got assigned, not as a truck driver but something pretty close to it in maintenance, maintenance of vehicles since they really didn't have maintenance of the electronic kind, so that's still lower than what I'm doing [inaudible] what they call second echelon maintenance. So basically, I was changing oil in vehicles and doing just normal things that would maintain the vehicles [inaudible] mechanical [inaudible]. The group here was headed by [inaudible] it was all segregated in terms of units in the reserve [inaudible]. [inaudible] pretty distinguished in Atlanta and associated with the Methodist Church. Of course at the time, he was commanding officer of that particular unit and another unit which was basically quartermaster and it was all segregated too. So I guess it's [inaudible]…fifty-three, fifty-four, fifty-five, fifty-six. I guess at that point in time they split up the units that were all segregated. Split it up and we all went different directions. Interviewer: So they integrated in fifty-six? Baldwin: I would say the segregated unit. They were [inaudible] split up. I guess between…I would say between fifty-five and….fifty-four, fifty-five, fifty-six. Cause some were still standing after that. So we split up and three of us, I know…two of us were sent to the…around the Atlanta school [inaudible]. Interviewer: Now say that again. Where was the school? Baldwin: After [inaudible] Atlanta U.S. [inaudible] school. He was in the East Point at the time [sic]. They had a facility in East Point over there off of Payne Street, near now where the Center for National Archives is located. [inaudible sentence] I was assigned to the staff and they had very few enlisted classes at the time for rank and file persons. Interviewer: What was your rank at this point? Baldwin: Rank at that point…I was still corporal. There wasn't any…still a corporal. Interviewer: And you had all these skills that you… Baldwin: Right. Interviewer: That were not being used. Baldwin: Both college and…not being used. So when I was in the school staff, they eventually had classes where we [inaudible] needed the skills for the particular [inaudible]… Interviewer: M-O-S? Baldwin: That's Military Occupation Specialist, at that time. So, I went in to…[inaudible] as an assistant instructor. And I guess the first class was in…[inaudible] being an assistant instructor, cause they still carrying on cooks, classes and things like that [sic]. So, [inaudible] assistant instructor, made sure of the logistics and ordered materials and things that they needed from the various points where got materials from. Eventually, along with the other guy, one or two of us got assigned to the schools. And Mr. Rucker and me [inaudible] a few years cause he was also in the unit with me. Interviewer: His full name was… Baldwin: Walter Rucker. He was one of the…some people you know have a knack for rules and regulations and things of that…it just comes natural to him and organizes and so forth. So he got to be on the administrative side and I was on the instructor side. So eventually after a few years, I wound up [inaudible] instructor training which was at Fort McPherson. That's where it was located at the time. [inaudible] instructor. Interviewer: What year? Baldwin: I guess about nineteen fifty…between fifty and fifty-nine, if I recall. And then I became an instructor in the school with the OS classes, but during the summer camps, either twenty-one days or in some instances a month of active duty, the school's primary mission was to train officers for officer school…Army Reserve officers. And in the summer I became an assistant instructor to an officer. The officers start off at lieutenants and they go all the way up in the…they have the training all the way up to the…some of them even wind up going to war college and… Interviewer: What was the office that you were assigned to? Baldwin: There wasn't any specific about [inaudible]. Depends whatever stage that they had classes in. They had command general staff school when…about the fourth series. So it may be assigned to an officer at command [inaudible] as an assistant instructor. May not be doing any actual instruction, but making sure that all the thousands of pieces of materials that they get from Fort Leavenworth was actually in place and then explain to them how to use it as they were…as instructors, you know, basically going through the materials. Interviewer: [inaudible] Baldwin: [inaudible] Interviewer: You were instructing [inaudible] African-Americans and whites? Baldwin: And whites. No, it was all mixed. - Metadata URL:
- http://album.atlantahistorycenter.com/cdm/ref/collection/VHPohr/id/319
- Additional Rights Information:
- This material is protected by copyright law. (Title 17, U.S. Code) Permission for use must be cleared through the Kenan Research Center at the Atlanta History Center. Licensing agreement may be required.
- Extent:
- 57:23
- Original Collection:
- Veterans History Project oral history recordings
Veterans History Project collection, MSS 1010, Kenan Research Center, Atlanta History Center - Contributing Institution:
- Atlanta History Center
- Rights:
-
