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Halstead 'Hoss' Manucy : Transcribed Interview

Collection:: Civil Rights Library of St. Augustine
Title:: Halstead 'Hoss' Manucy : Transcribed Interview
Creator:: Manucy, Halstead "Hoss"
Kallal, Edward, Jr.
Contributor to Resource:: Samuel Proctor Oral History Program, University of Florida
Date of Original:: 1976-02-21
Subject:: Civil rights--United States--Florida
People:: Manucy, Holsted, 1919-1995
Kallal, Edward, Jr.
Hayling, Robert Bagner
Peabody, Mary E. (Mary Elizabeth), 1891-1981
Simpson, John Milton Bryan, 1903-1987
King, Martin Luther, Jr., 1929-1968
Stoner, Jesse Benjamin, 1924-2005
Lynch, Connie (Charles Conley), 1912-1972
Manucy, Halstead "Tommy"
Manucy, Alonzo "Bubba"
Location:: United States, Florida, 28.75054, -82.5001
Medium:: transcripts
Type:: Text
Format:: application/pdf
Description:: Interview with Halstead "Hoss" Manucy, a St. Augustine segregationist and alleged Exalted Cyclops of the local Ku Klux Klan (KKK). Focuses on the Ancient City gun club having no affiliation with the KKK. Disputes he was ever a KKK member.
SJ 2A l S~jcct: Halstead "Hoss" Hanucy Interviewer: Edv3rd Kallal, Jr. St. Augustine, Fla. February 21, 1976 Mj Vo .,"f/11f1 ,_c. X: 1 want to thank you for junt conGc n~ing to talk like thio nnd I/An, you k11ow, trying to collect the evidence from nll sides and so th~t'e why w~'re talking. We're going to start at the beginning nOlol. Are you a native St. Augustinian? M: Bora and raised. K:0 Rcally1 Vhac:s it like to grov up in St . Augustine? H: I imagine just like growing up Anywhere else. K: Ya.Ah? M: lt'a just all my family been here for 200 years. K: 1\ro hundred years? H: Yea. Coe in 1769 t think and they landed .: tit IJ¥ .. 1 ~ctt!lt and t:110st of th~ .-d ,,.th/ 'r fhtS ,If, •• ,{ settled Jw-. "' (6/l'f.r(,;x. K: You've got pretty deep Toot• bore then, huh? H: That' a true. That' a why we liko to fight for i t. K: le it true ~h~t report thcro eRid th~t you used to play footbail for Sherlff Dnvio? H: Sheriff Davis was at'/ conch. K: What was this, h~gh school or tho ••• ? K: Hi&)> School. K: High School. high achool ... ? K: Oh no. Just Did you ever go to college or vas ph.,.:J ~ in high achool. ~c•c. -5.lv> K: You aaid you working 3t o ~ now, what kind? /\v\o, -- M: lRS nhop. Jtf. '/"6""' r Chrysler Plymouth nnd /l1 ,,,,,/ ,8 ,,. • h I'"' t ~'' the~ r ta=e. Some ~n owns them both. l work mostly on the road. X: What do yOu mean on the road? H: Woll, 1 haul cars back and !orth to get new cars and deliver ooi cars. SJ 2A Page 2 MCKen?:j.e Uh hub, l see. . .,,,. 1. {/:vt/ $01"• .;,, P"'"" ' ><' u~. K: K: -;: wuf )o f;'fJc,μ h"~ f. ~ to the auction over there.. K: Uh hub. M: I've been with him 21 years. K: Yeah? That ' s a long tiJne. Ro"W"-hov \."Ould you say generally the uh uh race relations w~re like before the crisis of '63-'64? M: Mostly no problems. K: No? M: None whatsoever. And re.ally it wasn' t no b~g problem vith the local colored at a1.l. They were just outsiders ••• • K: Yeah? M: •• • and then a few locals got into it .... K: Uh huh. M: ••• mostly it wos all outsiders. K: What about that uh fel la Hailing. the. uh dentist1 M: Well, he wasn't a natiye from here. He was an outsider. Re didn't ttay here long. So-he was a dentist, I think. that K: YC you say you think that the uh integration has helped tha ..ould you say it-it isn't better? The uh integration and the uh •••• M: \lell, like I say it isn't better- it-it's ju'S+for the colored people. t.: Uh huh, yc..tfi"' down. - they closed it // last ye.at'. Mm lw. ~f~, Yeah. }fas up tUI last year but uh 1t- 1t- wcll it's just the got all the pastures now, you know. That•$ what we ws -.having--that' a why we. formed this club~ here the litt~ man'd have a place to hunt • K: Yeah. :But it-- and we dAN4 real good. We had it from. '52 uh up to a couple of yea.rs ago . K: Uh. But how many people would you say were in it? M: We has as high as eleven - eleven hundred. K: Eleven hundred, huh? H: And uh we'd see a membeOhip card-course yo+hat you wtuff !n/\Miam.t.-llerald and uh .•.• M: l:e:lll ••• . Daytona. Pape1•as the only one1that. give us a ~ugh time. K: Uh huh. M: I just-you kno..,...- 1 just want;l.:o verify a couple of things that t -hat I re.ad in this pa.per and you tell me if there true. or false you know, qualify them or what and it was in the Herald that I read th.a~ y'8.ll would carry guns in your cars in the uh vbile tha uh demonstrations were going on- you kept •• • M: I' carried .8: -gun. K: ~eah? M: 1 was ord0red by the state and by the sheriff' s department be-causo 't:f1 life b3d been threatened t>everal ti.mes. K: Oh, t:"eally? Who uh threatened you? M: Well, we don't really 1c.now but uh I mean-I never carried it on me. t always carried it in the car •.. . qtor.f,1i,;//1J everywhere I went in I > the C3'C. K: l(m hm. H: But uh flfe"19 hr U club,no, they didn' cnrry guns. K: They d:i.dn' carry guns? M: Nah. Now, the l.o.w when they oarched with U$ they carried suns- and blackj~cks and e verything else. SJ 2A - ~•&e 14 ·He Kenzie ·K: Were they sher iff's police and uh •• • • ? H; llighway patrol. K: Highway patrol? M: Yeah. K: What obout uh-vhat about the uh you know, it ' s widely Tepor-ted that y'all used the citizen band radio to coordinate--? p;. vq,ah) M: ~· we had citizen band radi o all of us had had citizen band . I think in any club · · C< j;i 1/ 4,,,.. m St. Augustine. we had about 32 · :../ Q?4- · · ·a·r£ · ·*-e Y,;,-e: L< AJ'd we had ~ctter ~et up and we.11 , ~"O just patrolled all day and all ~ght-, we knew what was goin' on all the tirM. K: Mm i..n. M: And uh but we done i t ~egal~all the radios was legal •• •• K: Yeah. H: \le worked on our own band and we worked with the city police and the sheri ff's department . K: Well-well vb.at exactly would you patrol for ? M: Well, just 11ke sometime · twelve o'clock at night t hey' d get uh uh a parade together and they gonna pal:'ade up town, see. (t 1u./, / J.- . O'°' ' 'f- ~ ~t<•C rw@r/ ./~- o.I ., and then they were gonna do it / I any how. K: Uh huh. ,-- SJ 2A ~age 15 Y.cKcnzie M: And they just got to stop-that's all. But uh and then somebody'd call us on the radio-they'd-well, we just had somebody everywhere. M: Like wh.en they \o"e.nt to the beaches-we knew it before they ever got there. K': tlml M: And that they "''ere goin' and it' s just like-~--''--""'-"""::::::-~::::::::..... .............. police "''Ork. K: And then when you found out where they were going you vould uh-? 'M: We-ve'd go there. K: Yeab. M: See what wa~ gOin' on. See if there was any foul play or anything far as them swirnmin' in the ocean-~ didn' give a damn about it. K: Uh. huh. Wh.o-\lho vas. it that would Uh tA.t.. hoe1 SheX'iff Davis I said the ub you know, the young whites would be out there tr-yin' to dunk 'co ond :i:tvff. Who you blov who --? M: Oh, them were kid6-ind1viduals. M: Uh ua there was a lot uh people-you'd be SUl."prised at the tour-ists and-',/.~'.l."'""'u"'+gf"'-'----- just didn' like it you know ••.• K: Yeah? M: It wasn't uh but I wouldn't get vet But uh you uh SJ 2A Ppge 16 McKenzie they had uh uh salt water mission boys~they were out there 1n boats-- K: Uh huh. M: • •• protectin' 'em and I-I don't believe they ever tried to drown •ea--they tried to scare 1 em--they did run ' em out of the water several times . •• ·• K: Hm to. So, what you all wuld just uh the ancient city hunting cl ub ; ~ = : would just go dO'Wn and, you know, uh just sort of watch the pro-cced: tngs or wha.tt ){: Well, vo usunlly knew what was goin' on all the tiine wc.-"e had '/le o ;,-, We had our own band and uh ...- e uh strictly ~μ,~"-'-m-"~,/-~"~"'~''~"-'--- J<: Yeoh. M: And tth we Md nothin' connectin' with the city p0lice or nothio' wi.th the sheriff's departr:ient on tM radios. K: They-they· __ _::::::::=======----? II: Their radios ws their ow. T ~;.,Ir tX ./I c/.;;-J-i<••rl ro.I/ t't~pa= /,·,~ a,.r/ .J)/t."1 ·' r Work together • •• • K: But y'all didn't work together on .•• ? ~ : No, strictly CD 's. ~ K: Uh huh. M: Now, we had good ones- ..-. e didn ' have no trash. We could talk nearly the - .$'i. .:lC lw £i-.., ~ with 'em. SJ 2A fage 17 .McKenzie ((,: Were the-uh _/d why~'t the integrationi.6ts seek the injunction against you? M; Well, they just try 81\ythins they could think of to try to tie I me up you know. It ju.st va.sn•.,t. NJr.1 PAio --""'-"-C-·_,,-.,,,,"'""'--'C'-"!?"""d!"'"s'---"&=~,,,,;;"~----'ask ' ei:a up-up t:o the club. SJ 2A . Page 18 ·McKenzie I ain't goin out there." I snid, ~ell, < you' re welcome to come if you · want. K: llhlmp. M: And uh but that ' s ju.st somethin' that got started - the newspapers K: M: I(: thought of som~individJa.ls thought • •• . So eh that 1 s j ust mostly uh _ .=::==:::::__ ? l1ostly tnlk.,, daafht< at' 1f7' Ctch I uh l read in another place and Sherif f Davis kinda confirmed it tha t ufng had uh you know had a little organization uh also. \.kis he. uh as well oraa.ntzed as uh y'all? M: Oh, definitely not. K: Nobody was . M: Not even the sheriff's dcpart,mC?nt or the police department. K: Yeah? M: tJbai like I said to·e uh had good equipment to work with. m d ve worlced a?t!;,. i'i,1., I with the sheriff' s department and the police depal."tment. -=======,,,.a-" they was ther~ or uh they had a few l ittle c'Xt: •• .. .-;0,.,,. uptown-some knock.in' aroW\d but . aa-lh..,,'# other than '" . £ ,,;.. 6· rfr t hen and uh and uh~ they had a little ("' ..._ r-J, .. .J- ).. i~,.. . ; rJ" up there one nigl and bustin' -.,z"';."/_4. ..,1..,_,,,., _,+,._ilu-.''"'"f';r--- - - .::;,===============:::::.- photographers. They were ordered I I -- - SJ 2A Page 19 McKenzie not to parade and we w~re too. And we didn' and they decid~ th.ey vas goin ' to do i t anyhoW. that K: Mm ho. Well, uh Sheriff Davis, you know, s.ays1you're not- ond I've read uh several articles sayin' that you're not also uh in the Klan-but S'impson claims you vere and let's eee who else -1,,,/~· M: ~ Simpson never c l aii:led I was. K: He said that t he uh ancient city hunting club was uh. was uh ;; y ;:. . a c Ml/wt;Y. .. M: He was b, J.•ou~tl uh.-• but it was never proven. K: No, uh and I believe the Uouse ·on unAm.erican Commit- Activities Connittec said that the _:nci ent c:_ity ~unting club was c/{,,,,,tCOI .,_ ::. number 519 of the United Flor ida . KKK . . uh was thia true1 M: Well, well, I don't know I 'm a C4tholic and I don't A':vl'{.ol rhr <;'.t,.,n ~ ,,,.,,, I r(;(f',-j,y., /,, o/'ft~ c4.,.,, K: * hln. M: All tho Hanucys is Catholic, see? K: Yeah. M: We were born and rAised Catholic. In fact, a11 my peopl e vere, so uh \lell __+- ,.C_o.'~'"'-j,"-'"'"'-r'4"'"''- we'd uh they'd been around •• •• I K: From the ;nci-ent .~ity? M: Uh no, from St. Augustine. K: Mm ho. SJ 2A Page 20 McKenzie. !f: And they uh wasn't from Florida mer/f•t at/of. AlobNDO. I K: Uh huh. H: Coveroor' s • And ch dovo io'lwallace' s old kicking grouods. K: Yeeh. M: B\1t uJ\ I met some fine people in the Xlon. I(: Yuh? H: And I tbt.nk it's just as legal as the HMCP. K: Well , it's not --it's not an illegal organization. SO, you would say t'hc .!ncient _c1ty !'unting: club wu not uh a part of ::. ;:- :.. the clan, vae oot a kl.avemt H: Ho. X: No? Uh. I know you say you think it is a good o,r&anizotion-it's uh .• •. H: The Klao? K: Yeah. M: Detinitelyl X: W~ coul.d you describe for •C vhat ub vhat you think their goals Arc, their uh-why is i t good? M: Well, I wouldn't know C4uao I don't knov that much about it. - aost oC t~ etuff vas al.L aecrct anyhow. K.: Km hm, yeah they are a secret organiz.ation. M: So, uh you wouldn • t - thoy •d have to trust you -----~r~:,,_~-~k~"~'~"~~ra'- ___ ------------ ---- SJ 2A Pago 21 ' ., I / I -' ~.< r wtor~ af .,lh' .i"t:!eetinp a,_,g f-< /..t'.':I e~ "• pealc:.ic;,gc and ub well uh they just talk fact• •••• M: Uh huh. ~~ .. ""•},, K: c , .. ; •z' \. up north and hO'W they-the nigger s was act.ing up th.a.re And 4Jf£" they Md everything in the world :ind ti.11 th~ froedom they w;tntcd •••• K: Uh bub. M: I .'k 1A1 Nev Jersey- they pre.ached on the !acta and uh l lil.ed it myse.lf uh I used to go t o &11 their a peeches and r we.nt a1.l tho vay t o Alabama to one. K: Oh yeahf M: Md t• d go down south to 'em. but uh I never ct.en uh a vhatcbaQ .co.17' real bad man in the Kl8J'1. K: . Uh hul1. M: Everybody l mot wtt.G just tope. X: Mm tn. bid they have many meetingo around hore during the uh-? M: In St. Augustine? K: YCAh. During the uh crisis? H: They hod a lot of uh uh wide open spuklnga ••• • IC: Yeah. H: ••• had 'ea in the pad and uh they had 'e• out the-re by the bowlin' alley and uh the law vas alvays there14.t>tvo~. SJ 2A l'age 22 K": llh did you know-did •••• M: And they di.dn' go veiled or no thin' they vent in e A) out£it _ _.,{....... ._ ,f'------ K: I don't bclit.ve eh.- i t '8 against the lnv to wcor o CllOak, r believe. K: Yop. X: Did you uh know the one fell.a fr01a Atlanta nomcd J.B. Stoner? H: Yep, rc4l. well. K: _ lle).l , )11\at did you think ot hi.lo? J.. -111.,-, ltf H: 0~ he vas a hcll of a nice guy. K: Yeaht Ub vould you-could )'OU uh describe to .e your relationship vith M•? M: Well, he uh S:2-n?1 - defended ae in Jnclc.aonvillc. K: Yooh. M: Stoner did. K: Uh huh. M: And l\C worked with uh uh a local l awyer hero, Frank UO\mrd. K.: Pronk Jlowsrd? II: Ha K: So uh H: But Fr atllt Howard vas t:IJ lewyer. K: Uh huh. Would you say in tenas of-in. teraa of the uh SJ 2A K: Well, lav. I J t hat he knew the law, /,J~ // -cilf fA11ho• • a un /'\ knows the ) X: Yeah, he is. He's a--from vhat 1 undcratnnd, he'& o very good attorney. Uhl\ did you all have-other than a, you know, a client - •ttornoy--V (11: If,, wPS ~ ~.......,. rclationshio/as far •• I kl'low uh, hie ct.and.a.rd wa.a--ha vae uh the firm's lavyc.r from Georgia. I mean, the klao, I guess you cal.l 'C., I don't k:nov hov, what they went by • IC: Ub hub. K: lut uh and he like 1 &8)', if v c got a place to have 'ta (t , hl"e ve. fl ______ they vel2. they ver~ got6fta havo a speaking ton.ite a lot of the times if ve could help them vJ.th it ~ helped thect with it, gett11:i' you ktl.ow, permits and thin&fJ.Thcy didn' do notbin ' without permi.&sion. K: Sheriff D.'lvis k1nd4said the lQ.41n uh, you know, ~lien they come 1n they 80rta looked to you for, you lcnov, a little help in orgru>.izlng • .. K: ----~y;<...:.:.o :>_,._ _____ ,vea, then uh w juat didn' want no- 7 body gctt.in' outta line... I eeao you can't-you un't control a thouaand pCtOple. K: Yeah. Is-U-woul.d you s.ay that's be about the eizc of the-that vould show up for the uh U.n 11aectiogat SJ ZA Poge 24 ·Mcl, SJ 2A Page 26 ·Mctmb went in uh after the Civil Rights demonst'tation had been passed W:d uh:!'.-< - -fliC. 'j)"Y 1-w/ H: Welll ••• K: •• 4-t integrated and then, you know, it was, you know, being.._ __ _ h 11 :fh1. y JI, /.ft ... c .... 7 M: Well l , y0u wac $ 1potQd to integrate. K: Yeah, but at onc~tbcn white counterpickets, you know, picketed them, d i.dn ' t they? M: Uhh, l don't think they ever picketed _ _,$""--'''-. ''="•' •:.';'1-'- --- at the I M:tnson •••• K: No? M: That' c t:here they put them gators in the swimmin' pool there? K: And t hen- the acid in thQ switmin' pool? M: Noo, bleach. K: Bleach? Well , you know •••• M: 114 11oh ha hah ha. K: K: K: · SJ 2A · Page 27 Well, what about--what obout L. Yt1 prenchers 'd come dOtln here. from up north and anything th•y v.mtod to aok hS.. he K: Ye.ah. "' "1 // •d M J _,_N.=N~rl'-_,.,_..".'-,""""--'be have -'Open debate vi.th 'e• any time-right in /I the pnrk. K: And so you'd cay you wOrked kinda. c lose with him too? M: Oh, 411 of 'ea, ye.oh. Couso they - thcy-thny were radtc.al people and they - they were in to let you know vb.at was gollng on becau.se :tt: bad happened to them ftr•t. Be was out in Little Rock _,,d then in Alabama and uh he-he ju1t l:nev vb.at '"-as goto' on. What- vh3t the-y verc up to. K: Uh so you would soy you "WOrked with the:ta s.ay oimiltu: to the vay you vorkcd vith uh Mt;". $Toner? M: Yeah. They'd betn to 11\1 house J t.ioe.s and I'd been to where they stayed. -------- ---------- -- ---- SJ 2A . Pose 28 · McKenzie K: Yeah. Where-- \i:bere did they stay down here? M: Ahh, at the motels mos tly. K: Uh huh. M: But um ••• K: And so, you a11 "1ould get together and coordinate your marchct> your counter-demonstrators, or what •.• ? M: Wellt you see we- for a long t ime ~e didn't have any a~u:ches . We just figured the only way to beat the:n was to beat 'era on their own game. K: Uh huh. M: And 1:t worked. K: Wh-wMddya mean1 That's why you brought up the tnarche.s? M: Yeah. K: Uh huh. banner M: And uh we had big on the front of it-uh a man and hit> wife towed it--wtth a big rattlesnake on it t hat Mys, "Don't Tread On Me"~ and it led the po.roide. K: Yeah. M: We were awful quiet, we didn't make no .jou know, kinda characterized your uh his relationship to you he kinda uh terms of his liaison of ficcr and so you ~'Ould uh kinda help him keep you know, informed as to what w.s gom• on ••• 1 ~ ~ ~ M: /a.at was at-/,·}.':>, ,...,/-- what we knew and we done the sam.e ' , VC vs • K: Y•ah? H: l'f ho. thought there was gonna be trouble we tried to head it off. and juaflik.e when they ordered them not to go into these places and sit down and be on the floor? K: YMh? M: K: M: We had--we had no part in that ~ uh strictly the sheriff's department handled that. Uh huh. OS Uh nov G:iias a deputy once or tvicc I hc.lpcd h1tn at the jail, you bow, had a big crowd out the.re • •. I think around the same time 1bout the saioo time they put Miss l'eabody in j<:ks throwed at me ~ no shootin' at me and nothin' like. that. K: Nm hm. So you ••• M: They did bust the windshield in my vife' s car uh but th..'lt was .-d.-on"e'""'r,.,ig=h"t"""h"'er"'e"-'in=---W.est Augustine. K: What would you-what would you say , you kn0w, ther e's all these different kinda police in uh- - what was the di fecreoce in uh the uh local, you know, the uh sheriff's department, the c ity!s department , their efforts to- to uh maintain peace and uh order Blld the uh. state officers- the uh troopers? H: We had-W"e had some of the finest state officers you ever seen thexe. K: Y~ah? H: And they were all tops. K: They were? K: Ahh, when they "'ere 8earchin' cars they searched whi.tc people' s cai:-8 just like they did the colored. SJ 2A Page 38 He.Kenzie M: And uh •••• K: What'd the uh •••• K: They didn't lik.e it, they didn't like goin' to the beach and ttdin' out there vith the.1.r unifon:i.s on and ju...t ao 3 or 4 could swim vhicb it vaan' really right when another .Uc dovo. the beach they could svill free. as they wanted to.on t'he same beacl\. lt: H.m. bm. Ub. would tho uh local-the local. polt.co do the eame I!: ~ H: K: tlrlng.-..earch both. uh. both white and black cars? l don't th:tn.k 4 ~ far .. ,. polJ.ca did it .... They just search the blacbf No. 1f they caught eomebody) attd they searched ae. "teah? M: Uh before hut uh uh nl.l they found wat/a gun in the car vh:lch I had perm.16810n to carry•well, I w~s a deputy anyhow ao l could carry it if I wanted to. K: Hoa ha. H: But uh •••• K: >'hy--i.1hy dld Simpaon t4k4 :iour dcputyship away? H: Well, l wasn't a bonded deputy--! was just a honor deputy. We had it for the po.at (!19, (,.,/a( _ _ K: Yeah.? SJ 2A ·Page 39 Mckenzie M: And uh and then uh one of tb,c boys was a bonded deputy--jus t that he didn't think we oug,ht t o be "' you knov, it wa• vcTy few grown-ups •••• K: Yenh, M: Very fcv grown-upa, mostly d,:/c/,.-fL'>I K: YC4h. Blacko? M: Ko&tly kida. And photogTophere. K: ltlml, kids and photogX'opher1, huh? M: They tore up about -=•-'h"'un=d:.:r"ed::...;:cam=•.,r:.:•:.:•:.....----~---·I' d down a like to had vhat the CA1DOraa coat th&y tore uv' here that night • •• • K: Who-who was doin' the tcartn• up, the. ~bites uh •••• ? M: Juat anybody \lf\o got to on~ of them. Pago 43 Hc)i\c_n.zie X: )Und of a huh, a free. for all on cameraa, huh? I K: Free for nl.l. Did'didn' get on ca=era, heh heh heh. K: llch heh heh, not if they broke them alll H: :,,,,, 'f? • Juot ,D 1krk«( eUmed 'em on the ground , oomc of ' erit they toOk 'l!m and tape recorders they took •••• K: And ... Md so you'd 11ay,_you lcnow, as atar a.-.s far as beipg, you bow, planned , organi..z·ed uh reai.et.once the-the whites er your rcncttoo would be uh would be uh liaitcd to these uh orgonhing these. marches and using the tvo va.ys to- t:vo vay radios to uh kee-p track of thinga and ttuf! .;.~ "' K: To knov what vas gotn' on. K: Ub huh. But despite the-but th~ uh, you knov, counttrdemonstrators and tha stuff ~t ~'"'"'"""-"r_ _,t<,,,nCl.fo<.!.,....:.,.__ __ ,.,.oo""n"'t"a"n"oo"'u"'"'----' H: Yeah, they uh that w-as somethi-n' thoy juo wonted to go a.wtmdn' on the bcocp and they wanted to uh ••••• Ulh hm. There ' s-there ' ~ a lot of that around here- in that time? .SJ 2A Pago 50 McKenzie K: Ohb, lota of it. =-=•L•---'•ount of it. You had to beat a man at hi.a own gue, you know ••• ~S K: Did the u.h-aft c-r the uh troublec& vere over did they go back to vork for the. uh t K: 1 Yeah, they vent back. Soo:e of •ea dld, some of •ea never vent back, y'bow •••• l.: oll, you knov, g1ven-g1va.n the. 1-portance of the uh civil ri'ghte bill do-do you think that the. uh w-wb-tmat effect-do you think t'.hc. uh vt.ole.nc:e,you know, both the uh the dcaonatra.tiona And, you know, vhen people got beat up And stuff !t-it-do you thinlc. that had any-tJ.ny uh bearing on the uh bill getting poosed-thot uh that kind of- M: Ohh no, no, I don •c think oo cause ve never really had that the K: K: wuc.h cffocc tuu:o . They built up aioat ot it-ncwscaators did 'n one thing 'n o.nothcr-but we had very little f~st fights o.nd knockdown drogout••··· So, you think thete wns o lot of difference between the uh the way tho uh nove med1-tho uh tv and radio vould cover the events ond the wy the nevapaper'fovercd the events? Yeahh, 4hh tv-uh thi• on!.' outfit vc bad here they-they give uc a (olr chAko on it all the vay around. NO"WV, I aade several K: M: ~ 2A Page 51 McKenzie record ins for one. in Miruni 1 n. he said be jus wanted the truth ) ;J a.nd he printed a nice piece • .. lenh. down th~re .•. "?but he had to set another paper to do it. K: Well ~ what paper? What paper did he~? but H: I-I don't recall off-off hand but i t was4t was a Miami paper. K: Uh hub. K: And ubh uh I 1!2.ade one for Huntley- Brinkley • n u.h J:' was ub,-I had Rore tiJrle. on Huntley-Brinkley t imagine than t he !:resident of th.a United Stutes bad • •• • K: H: K: M: Bah hah bah hah_. What kind of $Cuff did they ask you wh,~ou""'When you got on-? fl"' Just/' f•cts. Yeah. Y'koow, ond uh what vas- 1 think it was uh more or less uh ,""y Jt a/,,.+ r4< z.;.,, i'1~ / .11 /_,/...,. .r / "-":.;«d K: Uh huh. So uh would you say overall the uhh the- ::;:;+ . M: ~ wa.s uh bunch o f uh lic.G moct of it on the-on the news side of it-- ;[ I& f ~e of it was alright- printed right~ but- K: Wlt-vhat~h.at kind of- 'SJ 2A Pago 52 McKenzie M: Uh knockdowns 'n uh sbootin' s 'n the beatins 'n most of that was t11q f :fctAs' K: Thta- that w4s not true? M: Not true, cause. th~y had one little e .x,.,,,,.,l/?f'... up in the 'one park one night 'n then -; they had this'bn King Street one -11>• nisht- -other than that- ' n then the. ntsht ~ b q v got I shot •••. K: ""' hm. M: And uh ·really wasn' t--we.11, there was nobody hospitalized &:P't:/..; d '._,. orYt,,' f-4,"' when the boy got shot. K: Was that uh was be a membex of the uh Ancient City Huntin' Club? M: Xessir. K: Md they had been out hunting? M: Uhh they'd b-Oon huntin' all day that day and uh I think they I th~nk _ _::=:=============-- K: Uh huh. 1-I bellve, you know, when he was sho t his shotgun discharged throut:h the f loor? M: -'_,;~'-.''~--"'"'~"--{"_,.•,..•:..:1_r,cf_,.,..:<..-Lr.-..'_tbe car. K: Yeah-yeah.,.. I know that .t.he timc4 I've gone hunt1n1 , you know, one of the-you know, lo'e-We aiways make it a point to :=oke sure our guns '1.re unloadM 1-n--whilcr·uh you're drivin' around in the car. M: I Well, the y haul -"'~"'---------!all the tiate-~""-"'---'- -"4 in the back t/ir/tfc!'..lt they load ~. K: Yeah? M: What good U a empty gun? I L SJ 2A ~age 53 lfcJCenzie K: Well-it ' 6 just, you know,- K: ,~" ,It',, ~~·,/-1c y0u got out. of car and lo.d 4 ·gun whatever you were gonna shoot bo gone. IC: Uh huh .• H: It's uh-it's juet a utter- hi.& gun vas uh on the-on the uh -=======-==-1 don' t know if it was loy.tn' across th1$ way or how it 'WAS lflyin' uh uhh I w nt d°""" thc:1:e the next moi:ntn' vherc t~ car wae-thcy kept the car ri.ght thcrQ and uh they'd had-did have a bi.rdahot hole-it was birds.hot _.._.,.,.,..~""'Ii-=-'"'~ ub',/ Jt: Mm Ju:o. Uhh now &aid that you wor ked, you knov, pretty-pretty close.ly rlth sheriff DaVie and you also ira tu. of or·14n:lzing the uh uh lUrcbea 'o 1tuff you vorkcd pretty, you knov, fairly closely w~th ub Mr. Stone~ ••. M: Yeo.h. K: ••• end Hr. Lynch. Uh did Stoner and Lynch ever work much with Sheriff Datls. H: trb.h he vas-he. waa fri.end• of theirs •• •• K: Yeah K: I mean uhh he k:nev 1 cm. K: Vh !rub. H: See, wh-vben they come i nto town there hove n apea~in t hey had to have permits fJ"om thl\ sheriff's depart111Cnt 4nd the police dep3rtm.eot. SJ 2A HclCentie K: Uh huh. M: They vouldo't have 'ca vithout it. It: Uh bub. K: And they hod acveral. of 'ca be.re uh I don't tnov bow aany offha.od, y'Jcoov, but •••• K! Well, that' a:-that' a re.ally about a.11 the questions I bad prep-ared. la there any, you knov, laet-you tcnow; aUDDation. you'd 11ko t.o say that .oat., : you know, tho th1og: that really atat>ds out 1o your aind- 11: llcll, 'WC re.ally - - a-:w..-:2 <.._, X: -about tho 'W'hol.c thing? K: --the thiu,g thnt atanda out in my mind about the whol e thing they- Chay foua.ht 'n completely lose ••• K: Uh huh . M: •• • ub that they utl come up horc to do somethin' that t hey-j/ i!.. . llub? tJh th4t, you know, juat like I eoid, zqu bad , e-- 6 <'=--- hiG lawyer hero with ' :Im 'o all ' n they hod a white man by the e.·/•t; / ,'114-I Olllr name of __ .tJ=•'lv>"'" "''""'"'"'""'""'"'"O"''""r"•'---t~ on the beach with a bunch of n.tggore 'n they got //'·"' ri' over there and they just-juet didn't goin nothin'. X: Uh huh. K: it'• uh-the only one really hurt, I iug.tne, K: M: SJ 2A )'age 55 McK.cmzic was me havin' · to go· to court so many times. Ycohh. ./ I/ t?r tr·~'"J I:. But uhhhh l~I-1-1 definitel y didn' see vhere t hey gain-ed anything. Other than they used St. Augustine t6 helP. get this thing passed, y' know. K: Yeahh, .so you think that uh the march end stuff did h3ve an effect on t he uh pa.saage of M: Well, uh I-t don't think eo cause t hey never re.ally marched but
Ku Klux Klan -- The New York Times -- Ancient City Gun Club -- Ancient City Hunting Club -- St. Augustine Police Department -- New England Group -- Monson Motor Lodge -- Santa Maria Restaurant -- Old Slave Market -- Bombing -- Civil Rights Rally -- Civil Rights March -- Klan Rally -- Klan March -- Wade-in -- Shooting Death of William Kinard -- Police Brutality -- Civil Rights Act of 1964 -- Florida Spring Project of the SCM and SCLC
Metadata URL:: http://civilrights.flagler.edu/cdm/ref/collection/p15415coll1/id/1042
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Extent:: 56 pages
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