Peggy Harris interviews Edith King Flakes about the Phyllis Wheatley YWCA, which served Little Rock's African American community from 1917 until 1971 when it merged with the predominantly white YWCA.
On-site file includes transcript and audio recording.
INTERVIEWEE: EDITH KING FLAKES [sister of Ruth Finn, who was also interviewed for the history of the Phyllis Wheatley Club] INTERVIEWER: PEGGY HARRIS TOPIC: ORAL HISTORY OF THE PHYLLIS WHEATLEY LOCATION: LITTLE ROCK, ARKANSAS DATE: JANUARY 20, 1992 PH: This begins the Edith Flakes' interview, January 20, 1992. Please identify who you are. EF: My name is Edith King Flakes. I was born August 4, 1914. My profession is musician. My residence is 2507 Cross. My activities are private music teacher, organist of Mount Pleasant Baptist Church, Little Rock, Arkansas. I am a retired minister of music. In other words, minister of music emeritus. PH: Okay. EF: The only relationship I had with the Phyllis Wheatley YWCA was to attend various activities held, sponsored socials for the children in the schools, and kept my children active in the various camp activities in the summer, where they would go to camp Clearfork, out from Hot Springs. PH: So you were a sponsor in the schools for Phyllis Wheatley. EF: Well, no. For instance, if they were having parties at they, I would more than likely be a chaperon. That was my responsibility--to be a chaperon. PH: What years would this have been? EF: This would have been around in the early '50s. PH: Did you have children, daughters, that went there? EF: Yes, I have two daughters, and they would take part in those activities at theY. PH: How did you get involved in it? How did you find out about it? Through your friends, or was it well-known in the community? EF: Well, it was just one of the main activities for young people at that time. PH: Where you ever an officer or involved in the administration of the club? EF: Not at Phyllis Wheatley, but I did become a board member after they changed over. PH: Of the Central Y? EF: Of the Central Y. Yes, I was board member. I have a plaque here that I received from the Central Y. PH: So you served from 1979 to 1987? EF: Uh-huh. That was eight years. In the '50s, the YWCA was kind of a central location for activities for the various churches. A lot of times we would have teas at the Y, and we would have different types of programs at theY. People really enjoyed going to the Y. PH: Do you remember the names of some of the groups that used the facility? EF: Well, I could say some of the church clubs would use the Y. I can't remember off-hand other organizations. I do remember the church groups would use the Y for teas. I can't remember any other group. It's been so long. PH: A lot of things have happened since then. EF: Oh, yes! I should say so. PH: What was the relationship like between the blacks and whites during that period that you are talking about? I guess you are talking about the '50s. Do you remember an earlier period? EF: Do you mean so far as the Y was concerned? PH: Yes. EF: I really don't know, because I was not really a board member at that time, wherein I would be involved. They had the membership drive and I would always pay my dues, but so far as being on the inside to keep up with what was going on, I wasn't part of that. PH: Were you born here in Little Rock? EF: Oh, yes. I was born right here in Little Rock. PH: But you didn't become involved in the Phyllis Wheatley until the 1950s with your daughters? EF: No. No more than just going to the Y. PH: Because it started in the 1920s after World War I. EF: That was before my time. I mean, if it started in the 1920s, even as a girl, we didn't go to the Y for any activities. PH: Did you know of it when you were a little girl? EF: Oh, yes, I knew of the Y because I had friends that would go down and play tennis. They had a place in back of the Y where they would play tennis, on the outside. PH: But did your parents not let you go, or you just weren't interested? EF: Well, I think my parents, my father especially was the kind of person he just believed that you stayed at home. We would go to Sunday School and church on Sunday, and go to school every day, and other than that we didn't get to go out to very many things. PH: Was that then considered unusual for young girls to go out to the Phyllis Wheatley? Did more families keep their children at home? EF: No, I wouldn't say that, because there were some that were interested and would let their children participate in the activities of the Y. PH: In the '20s and '30s when you were a young woman growing up in Little Rock, how would you describe the relationship between blacks and whites in the community? EF: Well, it wasn't too good during that time, you know. I remember when I would go to Capitol Hill School over there at 11th and Wolfe, and then we had the West Side Junior High School, the children would get in fights. So after they began to dismiss school, I think 30 minutes or 15 minutes earlier, to let the black children go home earlier than the whites, because there was not a good relationship between the children. PH: Is that right? But they were going to school together? EF: Oh, no, no. See, they would have to pass each other, and they would get into these fights, you know. PH: And this was - let's see the school you were going to was called what now? EF: The Capitol Hill, that was at 11th and Wolfe. PH: Okay, the Capitol Hill School at 11th and Wolfe. Was that a public school? EF: Oh, yes. PH: And the other school was West Side, did you say? EF: Uh-huh. That was down at 14th and Marshall. PH: And that was for the white children? EF: Uh-huh. PH: So this would be in the 1920s? EF: This would be let's see. I started school in 1920, so this would be the '20s, through '26 and '27, something like that. PH: Okay. Were wthe fights breaking out between the whites and the blacks? EF: Yes. PH: And so they would let school out - EF: Early. PH: Your school? PH: Yes, they would let the school out early where they would not have this run-in. PH: I see. Also, I have heard other people describe really bad situations with lynchings - EF: With what? PH: Lynchings. Do you remember any of that? EF: I remember in 1927, I think it was, when a black man was lynched at Ninth and Broadway. PH: And what was the black community's response? What could they do about that? Did the police help at all, or just what - EF: You know about me, I wasn't but what? In 1927, I was about 13 years old, so I can just remember the silence and how the atmosphere was after it happened. Everybody was quite disturbed. PH: Go ahead. You can kind of elaborate on the Phyllis Wheatley Club. EF: Well, what else could I say? What would you want to know? PH: What was its mission? What was its purpose? EF: You mean for the Y? PH: For the Phyllis Wheatley Y. EF: Well, let's see - what was the purpose? I can't hardly answer that. PH: Do you remember Ninth Street? The Phyllis Wheatley would have been pretty close to - EF: It was just a block away. Phyllis Wheatley was on the corner of Tenth and Gaines, and, of course, Ninth Street was just a block north. Back in those days, Ninth Street was just full of black businesses. We had drug stores, cleaning and pressing shop, restaurants, cafes, the Taborian Temple at Ninth and State, the Mosaic Temple at Ninth and Broadway, and a lot of activities would go on at the Temple. The dances - we had outstanding orchestras that would come, like Cab Calloway, Louis Armstrong. They would come and there would be a public dances. So Ninth Street used to be a very flourishing street down through the years. They had cleaning and pressing shops, just business, business, business. But it has gone down now. Oh, it had churches on Ninth Street. PH: The Phyllis Wheatley was right in the middle of almost all that. EF: Oh, yes, close to it. PH: And did you go on Ninth Street as a young lady? Did you spend a lot of time? EF: I didn't spend a lot of time, but sometimes - I had to go down to the drug store and get ice cream and sodas, and our school would have matinees at that time from 5 to 9 o'clock, a matinee dance at the Mosaic Temple, or even at the Taborian Temple. PH: Your schools would have a dance? EF: They would have matinees, matinee dances they called them, from five to nine. And they would be fundraising activities. PH: Was the Phyllis Wheatley Club important to the black community? EF: PH: Yes, it was very And why is that? important, very important. Can you kind of elaborate? What was the importance of the club? EF: Well, the importance, I believe, was more of a - let's see, how can I say that, to bring the women together as a group, you know. They had the Phyllis Wheatley YWCA and then there would be other charity clubs that would use the Y, such as Sunshine Charity Club, the Provident Relief Club. They would have their activities there. It was more of an activity center for organizations. PH: So it really helped black women to become more organized? EF: Yes. PH: I Which suppose. was something that they were just starting to do, EF: Uh-huh. PH: And I understand that after slavery and emancipation, wc,rC, that there black organizations that started to form. I"' suppose it was a relatively fairly new thing for black women. EF: Yes, that's an idea, it was fairly new. PH: When black women I mean, I'm assuming that they thought of themselves as separate from white women. It wasn't like a sisterhood feeling, was there? EF: Well, I guess not, since that was before integration time, you know. Because the black women would have their activities at the Phyllis Wheatley Y, and then they had the Central Y at Fourth and Scott. The whites would have their activities there. PH: What were your experiences with white women growing up? What kind of relationships did you have or experiences? EF: In growing up? Well, I actually didn't have any experiences. I didn't have any experiences. PH: You never came in contact with them? EF: No, not growing up, I didn't. PH: When did you first start being exposed to them? EF: Well, I would say when I became a member of the Music Teachers' Association, where we were thrown together. And, of course, when I became a board member of the Central Y, we were thrown together then. PH: When was the Music Teachers' Association? When would that have been? EF: That was in the '60s. PH: What kind of experience was that for you? Was it awkward? Was it uncomfortable? EF: Oh, no. I could always fit in with any group. I didn't have trouble fitting in. No. PH: So there wasn't any of this kind of uncomfortable feeling because you felt that they thought you were inferior or looked down on you or EF: No, because I was always accepted, you know, in any group that I was a part of. And also when I became a member of the Central Arkansas Chapter of the Music Organ Guild, we were thrown together there, too. PH: The Music Organ Guild? EF: Uh-huh. PH: And that's the Central Arkansas Chapter? EF: Yes. PH: And what years would that have been? EF: That was in the '70s. Actually, it was called American Guild of Organists. That is the title, American Guild of Organists, AGO. PH: American Guild of Organists, Central Arkansas Chapter. EF: Uh-huh. PH: Okay. So the relationship with integration in the '60s and '70s, that change for you, that wasn't an uncomfortable experience. EF: No, no, it wasn't. PH: Were there things that you told your children, your daughters, about getting along with white people, or anything that you remember? You said they got involved with the Y, the Phyllis Wheatley Club, in the 1950s. EF: Uh-huh. PH: And it was still pretty much separate? EF: Yes, it was separate. You see, this integration didn't come around until what? 1957? I believe it was '57, and my children were still in high school. My oldest daughter finished high school in '62, and, of course, in '57, '58, and '59, that was the time that they were trying to make decisions on whether to send a child to the white school or not. PH: With the Central High School [integration]. EF: Yes, with Central. Yes, it was Central. PH: Where did your two daughters go to school? EF: My daughters went to Horace Mann High School. PH: During that whole thing, did you or your two children have any bad experiences with integration? EF: No, we didn't have any bad experiences, no. PH: The Phyllis Wheatley Club, did it take any kind of stand on the Central High School crisis? Did it get involved in that at all? EF: I don't know. I sure don't know. I really don't know because I wasn't a person that was at the Y daily, you know, to be on the business side or anything that was taking place. I just don't know. PH: Okay. We're kind of skipping around here, but that's okay. I'll have to organize it when I start to write about it. Can you describe what your experiences were during the 1930s in the Depression in Little Rock? What were your parents doing? In your family, how did they get through that? EF: What were they doing? PH: Uh-huh. EF: Well, working. My mother worked at the cafeterias downtown, and my father was a chauffeur for one of the rich families here, the w. w. Dickinson family, during the '30s. PH: And he was the chauffeur for this family? EF: Uh-huh. PH: And that was a white family? EF: Yes, it was. PH: And what did they do? What was their- EF: Well, actually they were the owners of the Acme Brick Company. PH: I thought that was in Malvern. EF: Yes, this part was in Malvern, then some of it - the office was here, too, in Little Rock. PH: Okay. And how many brothers and sisters did you have? EF: Just one sister. PH: Was she older? EF: No, she's younger. She's two years younger. She was born August 18, 1916. PH: What was your mother's name? EF: My mother's name was Marguerite. PH: And your father? EF: His was William F. King. PH: And you said she worked in the cafeterias downtown? EF: Yes, she was a cook --a very, very fine cook. There used to be a Blue Dragon Cafeteria and then there was the Peacock Tearoom, and she worked at the Sam Peck Hotel. That was her last job. PH: When was that? Do you remember? She worked at the Blue Dragon. EF: The Blue Dragon Cafeteria. PH: And where was that? EF: Downtown somewhere. PH: You were a little girl. And was the tearoom? EF: The Peacock Tearoom was at Fourth and Main. I remember that. And then the Sam Peck Hotel is where the Radisson is now, at Fifth and Gaines. PH: Yes. Do you remember that being a hard time? Was that a hard time for the family? EF: Yes, as I remember that was pretty --well, the Depression time, you know, during the Depression. PH: Now, tell me about your growing up. Did you go on to college, or what is your educational background? EF: Well, I went, as I said, to Capitol Hill, and then went to junior high. I finished Dunbar High School in May of 1932, and then I finished Dunbar Junior College in May of 1934. Then I went to Washington, D. c., and attended the Washington Conservatory of Music for two years. And then I went to Howard University School of Music for two years. PH: And Howard - EF: Yes, Howard University in Washington, D. c. PH: The School of Music, is that what you said? EF: Uh-huh. Then I've done post-graduate work at the University of Wisconsin. PH: Is that in Madison? EF: In Madison, Wisconsin. And I've been to George Peabody College in Nashville, Tennessee, and the University of Arkansas at Fayetteville, and UAPB in Pine Bluff, UALR. PH: You've just tried them all! (Laughter.) EF: I think that's all. I just like going to school. I just love studying. PH: So you ended up with a degree in music? EF: Oh, yes! Well, I ended up with my degree in secondary education. After I came home in '38, then they made me a music teacher at Arkansas Baptist College, and I taught over there for nine years. And then I got my degree in secondary education, and then I taught at the Arkansas School for the Blind, from '56 to '78. PH: And that was teaching music? EF: Well, partly. I think for the first nine years I taught music at the School for the Blind. From '65 to '78, then I was a classroom teacher. PH: Let me get this straight. After Howard University, is that when you came home and taught at Arkansas Baptist College? EF: Yes, at Arkansas Baptist College. PH: Okay. EF: And I taught music there for nine years. I was music teacher there for nine years. PH: Now, at that time, did you have a degree in music? EF: No, I hadn't gotten my degree. I had to go into education. PH: After you taught at Arkansas Baptist College, then you got a degree in education? EF: Well, I did get my degree. I was beginning to take some courses there, to finish out my hours for a degree. And I got my degree in '52 from Arkansas Baptist College, a B.S., bachelor of science. PH: In music? EF: Secondary education. PH: So that was from Arkansas Baptist College? EF: Yes. PH: And then, you went to work at Arkansas School for the Blind? EF: Yes. I started work for them in 1956, and retired from there in June of 1978. PH: And at the School for the Blind, you taught? EF: I taught music from 1956 to '65. PH: And then after that, you taught - EF: They integrated in '65, and they didn't have a place for a music teacher, they already had one, so I had to go into the classroom, a sixth grade teacher. PH: Okay. I got that straight. What about the relationship between the YWCA and Phyllis Wheatley Club when it merged? Do you remember the merging, or anything about the merger - anything about that? EF: Anything about the merger? PH: This ends the Edith Flakes interview on January 20, 1992.