Oral deposition of Tony Rose

Deposition taken at the Friday, Eldredge and Clark Law Firm, Little Rock, Arkansas
This transcript was created using Optical Character Recognition and may contain some errors.
CERTIFIED COPY IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT EASTERN DISTRICT OF ARKANSAS WESTERN DIVISION LITTLE ROCK SCHOOL DISTRICT, PLAINTIFF vs No.LR-C-82-866 PULASKI COUNTY SPECIAL SCHOOL, DISTRICT NO. 1, ET AL DEFENDANT MRS. LORENE JOSHUA, ET AL KATHERINE KNIGHT, ET AL DEPOSITION OF MR. TONY ROSE DATE: October 5, 2001 TIME: 12:38 p.m. INTERVENORS INTERVENORS PLACE: The Friday, Eldredge & Clark Law Firm 400 West Capitol, Suite #2200 Little Rock, AR 72201-3493 APPEARANCES On Behalf of the Plaintiff: On Behalf of the Defendants: Mr. John w. Walker, Attorney John w. Walker Law Firm 1723 Broadway Street Little Rock, AR 72206 Mr. Clay Fendley, Attorney Friday, Eldredge & Clark 400 west Capitol, Suite 2200 Little Rock, AR 72201-3493 ALSO PRESENT Joy Springer, The John w. Walker Law Firm Judy Magness, Sue Strickland, & Katherine Mitchell, Deponents Cobb Court Reporting P. o. Box #4 Sweet Horne, AR 72164-0004 Phone: (501) 490-0066 (501) 490-0926 - Fax 4 5 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CERTIFIED COPY AGREEMENT OF COUNSEL. SWEARING OF THE WITNESS . . EXAMINATION OF MR. TONY ROSE By Mr. Walker. . SIGNATURE SHEET . . ERRATA SHEET . . COURT REPORTER'S CERTIFICATION . . * * * * * * * * * Cobb Court Reporting P . o. Box Jl4 Sweet Home , AR 72164-0004 Phone : (501) 490 - 0066 (501) 490 - 0926 - Fax PAGE . . 3 . . . . 3 ... . 3-24 . . 25 . .26 . 27 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CERTIFIED COPY 3 STIPULATIONS The deposition of Tony Rose, produced, sworn and examined at the Friday, Eldredge & Clark Law Firm, 400 West Capitol, Suite #2200, Little Rock, AR 72201-3493 commencing at 12:38 p.m., on October 5, 2001, in the captioned cause at the instance of counsel for the Plaintiff, and said deposition being taken according to the terms and provisions of the Arkansas Rules of Civil Procedure. It is stipulated and agreed all forms and formalities in the taking, transcribing, forwarding and filing of said deposition by witness, are hereby waived by the parties, the right being expressly reserved to object to the testimony of the witness at the time of trial as to incompetency, irrelevancy and immateriality, other than those with respect to the form of questions as propounded to the witness. * * * * * P R O C E E D I N G S THEREUPON, TONY ROSE having been called for examination by counsel for the plaintiff, and having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows: DIRECT EXAMINATION Questions by Mr. Walker: Q. State your name. Cobb Court Reporting P. o. Box i4 Sweet Home, AR 72164-0004 Phone: ( 501) 490-0066 (501) 490-0926 - Fax 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CERTIFIED COPY A. Tony Rose. Q. Mr. Rose were you informed that the school district had committed to the revised desegregation and education plan in January of 1988? A. I'm aware of the district committing to that plan. Q. You were not on the board at that time? A. I was not on the board at that time. 4 Q. I see. Were you aware that the plan calls for remediation of academic achievement of African-American students? A. My understanding is it calls for efforts to remediate the gap. Q. Well, look at 2.7. A. 2.7. REPORTER: Now, speak up a little bit for me, please. ROSE: Yes, ma'am. Q. 2.7 says it shall implement programs, policy, and procedures- -- A. Designed--- Q. designed to improve and remediate the achievement gap, the academic achievement of African-American students. A. Yes, sir. Q. Then 2.71 said that in order to do that you"re going to have an annual assessment of the academic programs to determine the effectiveness of those programs in improving African-cobb Court Reporting P. O. Box H Sweet Home , AR 72164- 0004 Phone : (501) . 490 - 0066 (501) 490 - 0926 - Fax 4 5 6 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 American achievement. A. Yes, sir. CERTIFIED COPY Q. Have you ah, when did you go onto the board? A. A year and two weeks ago. 5 Q. I see. Have you seen an assessment--first of all, have you seen a litany or a listing of the academic programs in place when you came onto the board or during that year? A. A full list
no, I don't believe I have. Q. I see. Do you agree that in order to make an assessment of a program the program has to have some kind of identity? A. It depends on the nature of the assessment. Q. well, if you"re going to make an assessment as contemplated here, you have to know what the program is before you can determine the effectiveness of the academic program in improveing African-American achievement
you have to know what it is don't you? A. That's fair
yes. Q. All right. Have you been given a listing of the programs which are in place, which were in place when you came on the board which had the purpose of improving African-American achievement? A. I understand that pursuant to the plan their are three programs. Q. What were those three? A. That's the National Science Foundation math and science Cobb Court Reporting P. o. Box 14 sweet Home, AR 72164-0004 Phone, ( 501) 490-0066 (501) 490-0926 - Fax 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CERTIFIED COPY 6 program whatever it's called, the ah, early literacy, Pre-K literacy whatever it's called, and the middle school program. Q. What are the source of your understanding? A. The ah, report I believe
the compliance report. Q. Well now the plan is the plan, so I want you to--well, now that is a compliance--- A. Right. Q. I"m saying here I would like to see where the plan says that there were three programs. A. I don"t believe it does. Q. All right. Now are you saying that those were the only plans that you knew of which had the purpose of determining the effectiveness of--let me change it, change it. Are those the only programs which were in place that the board assessed in order to determine the effectiveness in improving AfricanAmerican achievement? A. Those were the programs that were apart of the program evaluation agenda as I understand it. The board approved program evaluation agenda. Q. Now this, this does not, 2.7 doesn"t address or relate to the evaluation agenda. A. No. Q. It talks, it says here and I read it literally, "it shall assess the academic programs implemented pursuant to 2.7 after each year in order to determine the effectiveness of the Cobb Court Reporting P . O. Box *4 Sweet Home , AR 72164-0004 Phone : (501) 490 - 0066 (501) 490 - 0926 - Fax 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CERTIFIED COPY programs in improving African-American achievement." A. It certainly says that, yes. 7 Q. All right. Are there any academic programs, programs which have been--which were implemented pursuant to 2.7 as of the time you came onto the board? A. The, my understanding has been that since the ah, desegregation orders were issued that the board has directed the district, the administrators have made their best efforts to comply to improve education level. Q. Well now Mr. Rose--- A. Did I misunderstand the question? Q. I don't mean to get or cross words with you--A. And I don"t want to get cross words with you. Q. now I want to go through this. It says that Little Rock shall implement, 2.7 says that you shall implement the policies, programs, and procedures designed to improve and remediate the academic achievement of African-American students. A. Yes, sir. Q. Are you saying--- FENDLAND: Including but not limited to Section 5 of the revised plan. WALKER: That's right. Q. Now are you saying that to your knowledge the only programs that have that purpose were the National Science Foundation Cobb Court Reporting P. o. Box 14 Sweet Home, AR 72164-0004 Phone 1 ( 501) 490-0066 (501) 490-0926 - Fax 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CERTIFIED COPY 8 grant, the early literacy program, and the middle school program? A. No, sir
I'm not saying that. Q. Right. Now my question then is can you identify the other programs which were placed into effect by the school board which had the purpose of complying with 2.7 or its subordinate sections? A. No, I can"t identify those those programs. Q. All right. Now if you can"t identify a thing and you say you had it, that means you can"t assess it doesn't it? A. Correct. Q. All right. FENDLAND: Are you meaning the board still? WALKER: I"m meaning the board. ROSE: Board meaning the district because the board doesn't do the assessment. WALKER: Fine. Q. But you understand--now you are aware and I don't want to, I mean you are aware when you went on the board early on you were disappointed with the evaluation or assessment system in place
is that fair to say as a board? A. Yes, sir. Q. And you all didn't approve the assessments that had been or evaluations that had been submitted? A. I believe if my recollection is correct and it may be hazy Cobb Court Reporting P . o . Box f4 Sweet Home , AR 72164 - 0004 Phone : ( 501) 490 - 0066 (501) 490 - 0926 - Fax 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CERTIFIED COPY 9 on this because I did attend several board meetings before I was actually sworn on the--- Q. Right. A. board, so which board meeting? Q. Well, whichever--- A. I believe in August before I came on the board is when the National Science Foundation evaluation was not approved. Q. All right. And since that ti--- A. Tabled actually. Q. All right. And since that time it has not been approved has it? The evaluation. A. I do not believe that it has. Q. In fact, since that time no evaluation has been approved by the board has it? No written evaluation has been approved by the board? A. We have received assessment reports that we have accepted on several programs. Q. But now an evaluation report is different from an assessment isn't it? A. Probably. Q. Now you are aware that the Evaluation Department has to abide by progressional standards in performing evaluations are you not? A. I would assume so. Q. That's why you have a P-R-E department. Cobb Court -Reporting P. o. Box *4 Sweet Home, AR 72164-0004 Phone: ( 501) 490-0066 (501) 490-0926 - Fax 2 3 4 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CERTIFIED COPY 10 A. Yes. Q. And you would also agree that when people do their own assessments of what they are doing they have in effect a conflict of interest? A. I would agree that that is a possibility. Q. All right. So that if you come to me and ask me how my program is working, I have a self-serving interest in saying to you that my program is working okay if that"s an assessment? A. It's entirely possible that you could say that
yes. Q. All right. Now but as a board you would want to at least have an evaluation that has purpose, content, criteria, conclusions and you all at least have adopted a set of evaluation guidelines haven"t you? FENDLAND: Let me say that"s a compound question. You went through the criteria and then ask him if he'd adopted it. Q. Right. You all have adopted a set of evaluation criteria haven't you? A. Yes. Q. I see. And just a verbal assessment does not meet the evaluation model does it? A. That's correct. Q. All right. Now have you ever seen any assessment of any program from the prospective of whether that program would or likely would not improve African-American achievement in this Cobb Court Reporting P . o. Box #4 sweet Home , AR 72164-0004 Phone : (501) 490 - 0066 (501) . 490-0926 - Fax 2 3 4 5 6 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CERTIFIED COPY district
anything in writing? A. Yes. Q. You"ve seen some. Can you identify it, please? A. The National Science Foundation assessment. Q. Now the National Science Foundation assessment but that wasn't approved by the board was it? A. The original one was tabled by the board. Q. And there has not been one approved since then has it? A. I don't believe it has
no. 11 Q. Now that National Science Foundation grant was intended to apply at the southwest school, McClellan
is that correct? A. Ah, I'm not sure. Q. What schools were included within the ambit of the National Science Foundation grant? A. I do not remember the original parameter
that was before I came onto the board. I know that the programs that have been developed using that grant money have been put in places, a great many schools. Q. I see. Now are you saying that that, the purpose of that was to improve African-American achievement? A. Yes, sir. Q. Is it fair, I mean have you read the grant proposal? A. I don't recall. Q. Have the heard the criticism that the grant proposal did in fact have that as one of its primary purposes but that is no Cobb Court Reporting P. o. Box t4 Sweet Home, AR 72164-0004 Phone: (501) 490-0066 (501) 490-0926 - Fax 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CERTIFIED COPY 12 longer the primary purpose of the NSF grant
are you aware of that criticism? Are you aware of that being a criticism? A. Are you making that criticism now? Q. I've made it before. A. Well, if you're making it now then I'm aware of it now. That's the first I've--- Q. But before now you have not? A. No, sir. Q. I see. Now if you're going to, if the program is for the purpose of improving African-American achievement that's different than improving achievement of all students isn't it? A. No, sir. Impr oving the achievement of all students will improve t he achievement of African-American students by definition. Q. Well let me, let me, let me see how that works. If you have white students at the 60 percentile level and black students at the 30 percentile level and they all go up as some figures show they did by say 5 percent--- A. Then they've all improved. Q. but this is not eliminating the disparity gap is it Mr. Rose? A. No, if the gap remains the same it certainly hasn't improved. Q. All right. Now do you agree that the only measuring standard that is in effect that the district has approved is Cobb Court Reporting P . o. Box H sweet Home, AR 72164-0004 Phone : (501) 490-0066 (501) 490-0926 - Fax 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CERTIFIED COPY 13 the SAT test, the S-A-T? A. In what sense, I"m sorry, repeat your question. Q. Are you familiar with the criteria for determining whether or not the gap has been narrowed or eliminated? A. I understand that there are several standardize test and when we receive reports of those scores they're always broken down by race. Q. Well, we"re talking about the test themselves
what are those test other than the S-A-T? A. There's the ACTAP. there's ah, there"s the state benchmark exams, district benchmark exams. Q. Now you understood that when we went, when this case was resolved in 1989 there was no ACTAP or Benchmark? A. Yes, sir
I understand that. Q. And we"re looking at achieving ah, narrowing the achievement gap that you have to use a consistent standard over a period of years, is that fair? A. That"s probably the best way to do it
yes. Q. I see. Now did the board ever decide in a board meeting that it was going to use ACTAP for that purpose of measuring whether or not the gap had been changed or was that something that was just presented to you by Dr. Lesley in the last year or so since you've been on the board? A. I don"t recall the board approving or disapproving of which standards, which exams are going to be used. Cobb Court Reporting P. o. Box t4 sweet Home, AR 72164-0004 Phone: (501) 490-0066 (501) 490-0926 - Fax 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CERTIFIED COPY Q. Do you recall her coming to you once and telling you all that the achievement gap had been eliminated? A. No, sir. 14 Q. Now you had a Research committee doctor, I mean Mr. Rose, do you remember being on that Research Committee? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did that Research Committee--do you understand Mrs. Springer participated in it? A. Absolutely, that's where I met Mrs. Springer. Q. Did that Research Committee have any purpose? A. A charge from the board. Q. I see. A. A vague charge. Q. Vague. Now is that Research Committee still in place? A. As far as I know the committee had not been disbanded. Q. Do you recall ever seeing criticism of the Research Committee by Dr. Lesley? A. Yes, I believe I have. Q. Do you remember her stating that we need to get rid of this sucker? A. I remember you reading that in court. Q. Were you surprised at that? A. Surprised, no. Q. Why would you get rid of a Research Committee that the board approved--- cobb Court Reporting P. o. Box t4 sweet Home, AR 72164-0004 Phone, (501) 490 - 0066 (501) 490-0926 - Fax 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CERTIFIED COPY A. I wouldn't. Q. if the purpose--you wouldn"t? Does the staff have the power by inaction of a committee to overrule the board? A. The authority or the power? Q. Power. A. Yes. Q. It has the power, okay. A. They have the power to do through inactivity to negate policy. 15 Q. That's right
I see. So they negated the policy in this case by in effect not using or continuing to use the Research Committee after February of this year, isn't that fair to say? A. Restate the question. Q. You haven"t been to a committee meeting of the Research Committee since February have you? A. I believe we met once in the summer. Q. Did Mrs. Springer get notice of it? A. I don't know. Q. Did you all do anything? A. We talked about how to continue the work of the committee, who would chair it in the interim until Dr. James selected a new chair. Q. Who was present at that meeting? A. Myself, Dr. Lease, Mr. Babbs, there were others. Perhaps the teacher representative whose name escapes me and--- cobb Court Reporting P. o. Box #4 Sweet Home, AR 72164-0004 Phone: (501) 490-0066 (501) 490-0926 - Fax 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CERTIFIED COPY 16 Q. But not the Joshua representative. A. No, I don't believe Mrs. Springer was there. Q. But now it couldn't have been the summer if Dr. Lease was there. A. Early summer--- Q. But she was gone before the summer wasn't she? She left in late April--- A. Is that right--- Q. early May isn't it? A. I thought i t, I thought she left in June. Q. She didn't leave until June? A. I thought she left in June. Q. I see. A. I could be mistaken about that or have the date of the meeting wrong for that sake. Q. Did you all keep minutes of that meeting? A. I did not, I don't know if any--- Q. Did anyone? A. I don't recall. Q. All right. Now can you explain why the Research Committee didn't meet between February and the summer other than because Dr. Lesley sai d we want to kill this sucker? A. I don't think that would have had anything to do with it. Q. I see. Well isn't that, didn't she say that the Research Commi ttee activities should be under her program area? Cobb Court Reporting P . o. Box t4 sweet Home , AR 72164- 0004 Phone : (501) 490 - 0066 (501) 490 - 0926 - Fax 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CERTIFIED COPY 17 A. She didn't say it to me
I don't, I haven't heard her say that. Q. I see. You take the position that the district needs to be focusing upon low performing students, is that right? FENDLAND: Who is you? A. Yeah. WALKER: You personally. A. Me personally? Q. Yes. A. Yes, I've taken that position. Q. And if you want to improve the academic achievement of low performing students would you not agree that you would develop different strategies for relating to them than you would for achieving, for improving the achievement of already high performing students? A. Certainly. Q. And would you not agree that in order for low performing students who are already in high school to be served best that you would have to relate to their foundational needs more seriously than you would the students who are already high performing, highly performing? A. More seriously, what do you mean by that? Q. Well, the students can't read and write. You want to make sure that they can at least do those things before they go into something else? Cobb Court Reporting P. o. Box t4 Sweet Home, AR 72164-0004 Phone, (501) 490-0066 (501) 490-0926 - Fax 2 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CERTIFIED COPY A. Certainly. Q. And you don't have to follow that same approach with already high performing students, isn"t that correct? A. You don't have to follow the same approach with students who already read and write
correct. 18 Q. All right. Now, so for all practical--you know that most of the students who are low performing are black? A. I know that most of the students are black and so it follows that most of the students who are low performing are black. Q. Well, you understand that most of the white student are upper income, are middle to upper income? A. I assume that to be true. Q. Well you can look at the census tracks can"t you--A. Yes, sir. Q. and you can tell that? A. Yes, sir. Q. All right. And if you were to come up with a system which allowed segregation of students--if you just wanted to say we wanted these classes segregated, all you would have to do is just simply say all the students who were in a certain test score range would be over here [motioning with right hand] but the ones who are in another lower test score range would be over here [motioning with the left hand] and the result would be predictable wouldn't it Mr. Rose? Cobb Court Reporting P. O. Box #4 Sweet Home , AR 72164- 0004 Phone : (501) 490 - 0066 ( 501) 490-0.926 - Fax 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CERTIFIED COPY A. I'm sorry, are we segregating them by race or by test score? Q. Well, if you wanted--A. I mean by location? 19 Q. if you wanted to do it by race and you know that the test score performance is likely to be a certain way, if you do it you know what the outcome is going to be. In other words if you say we want to use race, if we want to get a racial result but we have to have a nonracial explanation for it, remember now we want a racial result but you can't come out and say we trying, nobody in the district can come out and say we want a racial result, so in order to get a racial result you can look at those characteristics that are most common to the racial groupings and then adopt criteria for placement that most apply to those racial groups. A. I'm sorry Mr. Walker, I quit listening to the question when you implied that there were people in the district who wanted racial results. Q. Oh, you don't believe that? A. No, sir
I do not. Q. Are you not aware of ah, teachers and administrators referring in some cases to students ah, in racial terms? A. I've never heard it. Q. You've never even heard that the--- A. I've never heard teachers refer to students in racial Cobb Court Reporting P. O. Box i4 sweet Home, AR 72164-0004 Phone: (501) 490-0066 (501) 490-0926 - Fax 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CERTIFIED COPY terms. Q. But you don"t hear teachers, you've never heard those reports? A. I hear teacher a lot. Q. Are you in the schools very much? A. Yes, sir. Q. Why are you there? A. Many reasons. My wife is a teacher, my daughter is a student--- Q. Where does your wife teach? A. Chicot. Q. Who is the principal there? A. Jane Harkey. 20 Q. Okay. Now you don't suggest that you hear all the comments between teachers and students do you? A. Absolutely not
not for a moment would I suggest that. Q. All right. You"re not aware of the teacher at Dunbar who said that he was tired of teaching these dumb ass niggers? A. No, sir. Q. All right. So you just don't believe that people still have racial motivation in 2001 do you? A. No, sir
I believe that they do. Q. But you believe that nobody in this district does? A. I believe nobody is denying children an education because of their race. Cobb Court Reporting P . o . Box 1f4 Sweet Home , AR 72164 - 0004 Phone : (501) 490- 0066 (501) 490 - 0926 - Fax 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CERTIFIED COPY 21 Q. Well, there are different ways to deny education. You can let all kids be in a classroom, you can let them all hold their hands up but only call on certain kids from time-to-time
that's one way of separating kids isn't it? A. Sure. Q. You can give some kids, give all kids homework but you can give some kids verbalized instruction one-on-one and then not give it to the others and there"s no way that those students have to complain about it
but you don"t believe that kind of thing happens do you? A. I don"t have any examples of it. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen. Q. I see. A. Do you have example of it? Q. Oh, yeah. You can give students extra--A. Have you reported those to the board, sir? Q. Oh, yes
we have. A. To the board. Q. Well wait a minute. First of all you understand that our charge is not to report things to you? A. No, sir
I understand that once a month you have a spot on my agenda that you"ve never appeared for to report things to me. Q. Do you understand that the purpose that what we have been doing is making our reports to the responsible administrators, Cobb Court Reporting P. o. Box #4 Sweet Home, AR 72164-0004 Phone: ( 501) 490-0066 (501) 490-0926 - Fax 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CERT\F\ED COPY 22 have you not seen the answers to the interrogatories on all the letters and other correspondence that has gone to the--- A. No, sir
I have not. Q. Are you not aware of the scores and scores of letters of complaints that we--- A. I am aware that you--- FENDLEY: I'll object to the form, that is not true. We don"t have any indication of the example you just gave. Q. Mr. Washington testified in court, I don"t know whether you were there--- A. I did not hear Mr. Washington"s testimony. Q. Mr. Washington testified that he was aware of the example of the white teacher at Dunbar rushing in to the student lounge and said that I'm just tired of teaching these dumb ass niggers. Now you would expect us not to bring those things to the board would you not if we"re trying to cooperate with the district and bring--and you would expect us to bring them to the attention of your responsible administrators? A. I would certainly hope that a situation like that would be brought very quickly to the attention of someone who can do something about it. Q. Do you have anything to indicate that we have not been doing that over the past three years? A. Do I have anything to indicate that you have not been Cobb Court Reporting P . o. Box 14 Sweet Home , AR 72164 - 0004 Phone : ( 501) 490 - 0066 (501) 490 - 0926 - Fax 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CERTIFIED COPY 23 submitting--no, sir
I do not have anything to indicate that you have not been submitting those kinds of reports. Q. Have you not been told by Ms. Mitchell and Mr. Babbs that we regularly and frequently brought to their attentions items of discrepancy and racial treatment within the schools? A. I don"t recall, I don't recall. Q. Or did you assume that because I wasn't coming to the board to talk that we were not bringing things to the attention of your administrators? A. That is my assumption
yes. Q. Well now, you understood Mr. Rose and I told you once or twice that we were, the purpose that we saw this of the plan was to foist good will and good working relationships upon the parties and to try to work at the lowest possible level to have things resolved so that when they got to the board they would be really serious matters. A. That's reasonable but I take those sorts of racial slurs like you just described as a serious matter. Q. Why should we do that and tell me, not this is a question, why should we bring that to the attention of the board if we bring it to the attention of the administrators and they try to find a way to work it out? A. That's probably, you're probably correct. Q. And why should we put that in the public domain ah, other than to perhaps embarrass a particular_ teacher or characterize Cobb Court Reporting P. o. Box *4 sweet Home, AR 72164-0004 Phone: (501) 490-0066 (501) 490-0926 - Fax 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CERTIFIED COPY 24 teach misbehaviors in a way that is not helpful? Why should we try to do anything to put the teachers down? Did I not come before you and say that we were trying to shore up the district rather than to pull it down? A. Yes, you said that. 2001.] WALKER: All right. No more questions. FENDLEY: I have no questions. [The deposition ended at 1:03 p.m., Octobers, * * * * * Cobb Court Reporting P . O. Box H sweet Home , AR 72164-0004 Phone : ( 501) 490 - 9066 (501) 490-0926 - Fax 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 ' 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 CERTIFIED COPY SIGNATURE PAGE I, TONY ROSE, hereby certify that the above and foregoing deposition is a full, true, correct and complete transcript ~/the proceeding [mark the appropriate box): 25 J\? had at the time of the taking of my deposition. (OR) ( ) subject to the notations on the attached Errata Sheet made by me or at my direction. Date STATE OF ARKANSAS COUNTY OF PULASKI ) ) ss. ) SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN TO before me, a and for the aforesaid county and state on this of cOcJl&lHA , 2001. Notary Public in /} c
-/j..__ ~ - day ~ Cobb Court Reporting P . o. Box f4 Sweet Home , AR 72164-0004 Phone : (501) 490 - 0066 (501) 490 - 0926 - Fax CERTIFIED COPY 26 - 1 ERRATA SHEET 2 3 (Upon completion, please sign and date this sheet below.) 4 5 Page Line Change: 6 , To: 7 Reason: 8 Page __ Line Change: 9 To: 10 Reason: 11 Page Line Change: 12 To: 13 Reason: 14 Page Line Change: 15 To: 16 Reason: 17 Page Line Change: 18 To: 19 Reason: 20 Page Line Change: 21 To: 22 Reason: 23 Page Line Change: 24 To: 25 Reason: 26 Page Line Change: 27 To: 28 Reason: 29 Page Line Change: 30 To: 31 Reason: 32 Page Line Change: 33 To: 34 Reason: 35 Page Line Change: 36 To: 37 Reason: 38 Page Line Change: 39 To: 40 Reason: 41 42 43 Page of 44 TONY ROSE Date Cobb Court Reporting P. o . Box 14 sweet Home , AR 72164-0004 Phone : (501) 490-0066 (501) 490-092! - Fax 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 CERTIFIED COPY 27 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE STATE OF ARKANSAS ss. 429-84-1622 COUNTY OF PULASKI I, Gloria Y. Cobb, A Certified Court Reporter and Notary Public in and for the aforesaid County and state, do hereby certify that the witness, TONY ROSE, was duly sworn by me prior to the taking of testimony as to the truth of the matters attested to and contained therein
that the testimony of said witness was taken by me in stenomask and was thereafter reduced to typewritten form by me or under my direction and supervision
that the foregoing transcript is a true and accurate record of the testimony given to the best of my understanding and ability. I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am neither counsel for, related to, nor employed by any of the parties to the action in which this proceeding was taken
and, further, that I am not a relative or employee of any attorney or counsel employed by the parties hereto, nor financially interested, or otherwise, in the outcome of this action
and that I have no contact with the parties, attorneys, or persons with an interest in the action that affects or has a substantial tendency to affect impartiality, that requires me to relinquish control of an original deposition transcript or copies of the transcript before it is certified and delivered to the custodial attorney, or that requires me to provide any service not available to all parties to the act. My Commission Cobb Court Reporting P. o. Box #4 Sweet Home , AR 72 164-0004 ~hone : (501) 4 90-0066 (501) 490 - 09 26 - Fax
This project was supported in part by a Digitizing Hidden Special Collections and Archives project grant from The Andrew W. Mellon Foundation and Council on Library and Information Resources.

<dcterms_creator>Cobb Court Reporting</dcterms_creator>