{"response":{"docs":[{"id":"dlg_bald_am-1926","title":"--This doesn't apply to me, Barry-- I'm Richard Nixon-- / Baldy, [1976 Feb. 29]","collection_id":"dlg_bald","collection_title":"Baldy Editorial Cartoons, 1946-1982, 1997: Clifford H. Baldowski Editorial Cartoons at the Richard B. Russell Library.","dcterms_contributor":null,"dcterms_spatial":["China, 35.0, 105.0","United States, 39.76, -98.5"],"dcterms_creator":["Baldowski, Clifford H., 1917-1999"],"dc_date":["1976-02-29"],"dcterms_description":["Clifford \"Baldy\" Baldowski cartoon depicts Richard Nixon holding a piece of paper that reads \"Stay in China,\" \"'Nixon is violating the law' Goldwater.\" Nixon is following after Goldwater who is walking away."],"dc_format":["image/jp2"],"dcterms_identifier":null,"dcterms_language":["eng"],"dcterms_publisher":["[Atlanta, Ga. : Atlanta Constitution, 1976 Feb. 29]"],"dc_relation":null,"dc_right":["http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/"],"dcterms_is_part_of":["Clifford H. Baldowski Editorial Cartoon Collection, Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia Libraries, Athens, Georgia"],"dcterms_subject":["China--Foreign relations--United States","United States--Foreign relations--China"],"dcterms_title":["--This doesn't apply to me, Barry-- I'm Richard Nixon-- / Baldy, [1976 Feb. 29]"],"dcterms_type":["StillImage"],"dcterms_provenance":["Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies"],"edm_is_shown_by":["https://dlg.usg.edu/record/dlg_bald_am-1926#item"],"edm_is_shown_at":["https://dlg.usg.edu/record/dlg_bald_am-1926"],"dcterms_temporal":null,"dcterms_rights_holder":null,"dcterms_bibliographic_citation":["Cite as: [Title of the cartoon], [Date of cartoon], editorial cartoon by Clifford H. Baldowski, Clifford H. Baldowski Editorial Cartoon Collection, Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia Libraries, Athens, presented in the Digital Library of Georgia."],"dlg_local_right":["The Baldowski cartoons created for The Atlanta Journal-Constitution are licensed to the Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia Libraries by The Atlanta Journal-Constitution.","Contact repository re: reproduction and usage."],"dcterms_medium":["editorial cartoons"],"dcterms_extent":["1 item ; 31 x 44 cm. paper pen and ink."],"dlg_subject_personal":["Goldwater, Barry M. (Barry Morris), 1909-1998","Nixon, Richard M. (Richard Milhous), 1913-1994"],"dcterms_subject_fast":null,"fulltext":null},{"id":"dlg_bald_am-1316","title":"[Baldy cartoon about Jimmy Carter's candidacy in the New Hampshire primary] / Baldy, [1976 Feb. 26]","collection_id":"dlg_bald","collection_title":"Baldy Editorial Cartoons, 1946-1982, 1997: Clifford H. Baldowski Editorial Cartoons at the Richard B. 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Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia Libraries by The Atlanta Journal-Constitution.","Contact repository re: reproduction and usage."],"dcterms_bibliographic_citation":["Cite as: [Title of the cartoon], [Date of cartoon], editorial cartoon by Clifford H. Baldowski, Clifford H. Baldowski Editorial Cartoon Collection, Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia Libraries, Athens, presented in the Digital Library of Georgia."],"dlg_local_right":null,"dcterms_medium":["editorial cartoons"],"dcterms_extent":["1 item ; 33 x 45 cm. paper pen and ink."],"dlg_subject_personal":["Carter, Jimmy, 1924-"],"dcterms_subject_fast":null,"fulltext":null},{"id":"dlg_bald_am-1040","title":"[Baldy cartoon on the Fulton County Commission] / Baldy, [1976 Feb. 24]","collection_id":"dlg_bald","collection_title":"Baldy Editorial Cartoons, 1946-1982, 1997: Clifford H. Baldowski Editorial Cartoons at the Richard B. 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Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia Libraries, Athens, Georgia"],"dcterms_subject":["Georgia. General Assembly","Fulton County (Ga.). Board of Commissioners--Reorganization","Political corruption--Georgia","Georgia--Politics and government--1951-"],"dcterms_title":["[Baldy cartoon on the Fulton County Commission] / Baldy, [1976 Feb. 24]","--Hold it, men! We'll handle this through our two plants!"],"dcterms_type":["StillImage"],"dcterms_provenance":["Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies"],"edm_is_shown_by":["https://dlg.usg.edu/record/dlg_bald_am-1040#item"],"edm_is_shown_at":["https://dlg.usg.edu/record/dlg_bald_am-1040"],"dcterms_temporal":null,"dcterms_rights_holder":["The Baldowski cartoons created for The Atlanta Journal-Constitution are licensed to the Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia Libraries by The Atlanta Journal-Constitution.","Contact repository re: reproduction and usage."],"dcterms_bibliographic_citation":["Cite as: [Title of the cartoon], [Date of cartoon], editorial cartoon by Clifford H. Baldowski, Clifford H. Baldowski Editorial Cartoon Collection, Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia Libraries, Athens, presented in the Digital Library of Georgia."],"dlg_local_right":null,"dcterms_medium":["editorial cartoons"],"dcterms_extent":["1 item ; 34 x 46 cm. paper pen and ink."],"dlg_subject_personal":["Hamilton, Bert, 1907-","Stephens, Jack L., 1927-","Cates, Goodwyn, 1925-2005","Johnston, Richard","Dodson, Henry D., 1932-"],"dcterms_subject_fast":null,"fulltext":null},{"id":"abj_16bomb_p4017coll2-649","title":"Baxley office, city working together on bombing probe","collection_id":"abj_16bomb","collection_title":"Sixteenth Street Baptist Church Bombing Collection","dcterms_contributor":["Birmingham Post-Herald"],"dcterms_spatial":["United States, Alabama, Jefferson County, Birmingham, 33.52066, -86.80249"],"dcterms_creator":["Crane, Barbara"],"dc_date":["1976-02-24"],"dcterms_description":["Originally published in the Birmingham Post-Herald.","The Civil Rights Digital Library received support from a National Leadership Grant for Libraries awarded to the University of Georgia by the Institute of Museum and Library Services for the aggregation and enhancement of partner metadata."],"dc_format":["image/jpeg"],"dcterms_identifier":null,"dcterms_language":["eng"],"dcterms_publisher":null,"dc_relation":["Forms part of online collection: Sixteenth Street Baptist Church Bombing (Birmingham,  Ala.)"],"dc_right":["http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/"],"dcterms_is_part_of":["Ferguson 56.6, Ferguson, Hill Papers, Archives Department, Birmingham Public Library"],"dcterms_subject":["Sixteenth Street Baptist Church Bombing, Birmingham, Ala., 1963","Bombings--Alabama--Birmingham--History--20th century","African Americans--Civil rights--Alabama--Birmingham--History--20th century","African American churches--Alabama--Birmingham--History--20th century","Murder--Alabama--Birmingham--History--20th century","Bombing investigation--Alabama--Birmingham","Attorneys general--Alabama"],"dcterms_title":["Baxley office, city working together on bombing probe"],"dcterms_type":["Text"],"dcterms_provenance":["Birmingham Public Library (Ala.)"],"edm_is_shown_by":null,"edm_is_shown_at":["https://cdm16044.contentdm.oclc.org/u?/p4017coll2,649"],"dcterms_temporal":null,"dcterms_rights_holder":["This material may be protected under Title 17 of the U. S. Copyright Law which governs the making of photocopies or reproductions of copyrighted materials. You may use the digitized material for private study, scholarship, or research."],"dcterms_bibliographic_citation":null,"dlg_local_right":null,"dcterms_medium":["clippings (information artifacts)"],"dcterms_extent":null,"dlg_subject_personal":["Baxley, William J., 1941-"],"dcterms_subject_fast":null,"fulltext":null},{"id":"dlg_bald_am-523","title":"--Tell me again how you were able to pull it off and get away with it-- / Baldy, [1976 Feb. 22]","collection_id":"dlg_bald","collection_title":"Baldy Editorial Cartoons, 1946-1982, 1997: Clifford H. Baldowski Editorial Cartoons at the Richard B. Russell Library.","dcterms_contributor":null,"dcterms_spatial":["United States, 39.76, -98.5"],"dcterms_creator":["Baldowski, Clifford H., 1917-1999"],"dc_date":["1976-02-22"],"dcterms_description":["The Clifford Baldowski cartoon depicts Richard Nixon seated in a chair and in conversation with Mao Tse-Tung (Mao Zedong), who is seated on a throne and wearing a crown."],"dc_format":["image/jp2"],"dcterms_identifier":null,"dcterms_language":["eng"],"dcterms_publisher":["[Atlanta, Ga. : Atlanta Constitution, 1976 Feb. 22]."],"dc_relation":null,"dc_right":["http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/"],"dcterms_is_part_of":["Clifford H. Baldowski Editorial Cartoon Collection, Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia Libraries, Athens, Georgia"],"dcterms_subject":["Presidents--United States","Watergate Affair, 1972-1974"],"dcterms_title":["--Tell me again how you were able to pull it off and get away with it-- / Baldy, [1976 Feb. 22]"],"dcterms_type":["StillImage"],"dcterms_provenance":["Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies"],"edm_is_shown_by":["https://dlg.usg.edu/record/dlg_bald_am-523#item"],"edm_is_shown_at":["https://dlg.usg.edu/record/dlg_bald_am-523"],"dcterms_temporal":null,"dcterms_rights_holder":null,"dcterms_bibliographic_citation":["Cite as: [Title of the cartoon], [Date of cartoon], editorial cartoon by Clifford H. Baldowski, Clifford H. Baldowski Editorial Cartoon Collection, Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia Libraries, Athens, presented in the Digital Library of Georgia."],"dlg_local_right":["The Baldowski cartoons created for The Atlanta Journal-Constitution are licensed to the Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia Libraries by The Atlanta Journal-Constitution.","Contact repository re: reproduction and usage."],"dcterms_medium":["editorial cartoons"],"dcterms_extent":["1 item ; 43 x 32 cm. paper pen and ink."],"dlg_subject_personal":["Mao, Zedong, 1893-1976","Nixon, Richard M. (Richard Milhous), 1913-1994"],"dcterms_subject_fast":null,"fulltext":null},{"id":"dlg_bald_am-1130","title":"Back on the campaign trail / Baldy, [1976 Feb. 21]","collection_id":"dlg_bald","collection_title":"Baldy Editorial Cartoons, 1946-1982, 1997: Clifford H. Baldowski Editorial Cartoons at the Richard B. Russell Library.","dcterms_contributor":null,"dcterms_spatial":["United States, 39.76, -98.5","United States, Georgia, 32.75042, -83.50018"],"dcterms_creator":["Baldowski, Clifford H., 1917-1999"],"dc_date":["1976-02-21"],"dcterms_description":["The Clifford Baldowski cartoon depicts Lester Maddox wearing a \"Gut Carter\" scarf, pushing his bicycle backwards, up a hill in deep snow."],"dc_format":["image/jp2"],"dcterms_identifier":null,"dcterms_language":["eng"],"dcterms_publisher":["[Atlanta, Ga. : Atlanta Constitution, 1976 Feb. 21]"],"dc_relation":null,"dc_right":["http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/"],"dcterms_is_part_of":["Clifford H. Baldowski Editorial Cartoon Collection, Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia Libraries, Athens, Georgia"],"dcterms_subject":["Presidents--United States--Election--1976","Political campaigns--United States"],"dcterms_title":["Back on the campaign trail / Baldy, [1976 Feb. 21]"],"dcterms_type":["StillImage"],"dcterms_provenance":["Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies"],"edm_is_shown_by":["https://dlg.usg.edu/record/dlg_bald_am-1130#item"],"edm_is_shown_at":["https://dlg.usg.edu/record/dlg_bald_am-1130"],"dcterms_temporal":null,"dcterms_rights_holder":["The Baldowski cartoons created for The Atlanta Journal-Constitution are licensed to the Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia Libraries by The Atlanta Journal-Constitution.","Contact repository re: reproduction and usage."],"dcterms_bibliographic_citation":["Cite as: [Title of the cartoon], [Date of cartoon], editorial cartoon by Clifford H. Baldowski, Clifford H. Baldowski Editorial Cartoon Collection, Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia Libraries, Athens, presented in the Digital Library of Georgia."],"dlg_local_right":null,"dcterms_medium":["editorial cartoons"],"dcterms_extent":["1 item ; 33 x 46 cm. paper pen and ink."],"dlg_subject_personal":["Maddox, Lester, 1915-2003","Carter, Jimmy, 1924-"],"dcterms_subject_fast":null,"fulltext":null},{"id":"ffc_crlsa_p15415coll1-1042","title":"Halstead 'Hoss' Manucy : Transcribed Interview","collection_id":"ffc_crlsa","collection_title":"Civil Rights Library of St. Augustine","dcterms_contributor":["Samuel Proctor Oral History Program, University of Florida"],"dcterms_spatial":["United States, Florida, 28.75054, -82.5001"],"dcterms_creator":["Manucy, Halstead \"Hoss\"","Kallal, Edward, Jr."],"dc_date":["1976-02-21"],"dcterms_description":["Interview with Halstead \"Hoss\" Manucy, a St. Augustine segregationist and alleged Exalted Cyclops of the local Ku Klux Klan (KKK). Focuses on the Ancient City gun club having no affiliation with the KKK. Disputes he was ever a KKK member.","SJ 2A l S~jcct: Halstead \"Hoss\" Hanucy Interviewer: Edv3rd Kallal, Jr. St. Augustine, Fla. February 21, 1976 Mj Vo .,\"f/11f1 ,_c. X: 1 want to thank you for junt conGc n~ing to talk like thio nnd I/An, you k11ow, trying to collect the evidence from nll sides and so th~t'e why w~'re talking. We're going to start at the beginning nOlol. Are you a native St. Augustinian? M: Bora and raised. K:0 Rcally1 Vhac:s it like to grov up in St . Augustine? H: I imagine just like growing up Anywhere else. K: Ya.Ah? M: lt'a just all my family been here for 200 years. K: 1\\ro hundred years? H: Yea. Coe in 1769 t think and they landed .: tit IJ¥ .. 1 ~ctt!lt and t:110st of th~ .-d ,,.th/ 'r fhtS ,If, •• ,{ settled Jw-. \"' (6/l'f.r(,;x. K: You've got pretty deep Toot• bore then, huh? H: That' a true. That' a why we liko to fight for i t. K: le it true ~h~t report thcro eRid th~t you used to play footbail for Sherlff Dnvio? H: Sheriff Davis was at'/ conch. K: What was this, h~gh school or tho ••• ? K: Hi\u0026)\u003e School. K: High School. high achool ... ? K: Oh no. Just Did you ever go to college or vas ph.,.:J ~ in high achool. ~c•c. -5.lv\u003e K: You aaid you working 3t o ~ now, what kind? /\\v\\o, -- M: lRS nhop. Jtf. '/\"6\"\"' r Chrysler Plymouth nnd /l1 ,,,,,/ ,8 ,,. • h I'\"' t ~'' the~ r ta=e. Some ~n owns them both. l work mostly on the road. X: What do yOu mean on the road? H: Woll, 1 haul cars back and !orth to get new cars and deliver ooi cars. SJ 2A Page 2 MCKen?:j.e Uh hub, l see. . .,,,. 1. {/:vt/ $01\"• .;,, P\"'\"\" ' \u003e\u003c' u~. K: K: -;: wuf )o f;'fJc,μ h\"~ f. ~ to the auction over there.. K: Uh hub. M: I've been with him 21 years. K: Yeah? That ' s a long tiJne. Ro\"W\"-hov \\.\"Ould you say generally the uh uh race relations w~re like before the crisis of '63-'64? M: Mostly no problems. K: No? M: None whatsoever. And re.ally it wasn' t no b~g problem vith the local colored at a1.l. They were just outsiders ••• • K: Yeah? M: •• • and then a few locals got into it .... K: Uh huh. M: ••• mostly it wos all outsiders. K: What about that uh fel la Hailing. the. uh dentist1 M: Well, he wasn't a natiye from here. He was an outsider. Re didn't ttay here long. So-he was a dentist, I think. that K: YC\u003clh, uh huh. So, you'd say~the relations were pretty good then M: Well, I uh we never had no problem with them, put it that way, you knova and uh and ~cally didn 1 t ho.vc a big problem other than outGidcrs. Just like I said- - people from Massachusetts and .SJ 2A Page 3 +tcKeozic af / /441/ Peabody ond people like that come down ond erf.e/ tcllin' ua what they were gonna do . K: Uh huh. H: Well, 1 ini.agine St. Augustine bein' the oldest city in the United States Wl ib.'l 4*.:. rm,,M ,l .,{,,!{;.; u s what they gonna do. K: Yeah. WeU, vou1d you mind then weighing-~ort of ~ighi.ng the M: pluses and mtnuse.s of tho. segregation uh \"that existed before tfle.. cr:t:sts and the. tnt.egrated ub thl;nt t hat they tried to put in. aftencards and uh vould you say it was better? Worse? Or, b.o\\i: would you characterize this change uh ••• ? 11off.,;,\u0026. l\"-r Well, it wasn' tAupc..t\u0026 /Jhite people when they passed a l.av ~ it was 411 for colored J ·je/n' c )/ 'ql'o~,.M.• r•S• • Y·es •• • I M: AM there.'$ nOthin' in it-con.stitution _ _,a._.Y~ ___ con!Jtitution for White people whtltsoever. K: You mean thaJcivil Rights Act o f '64? M: Ye.ah, yeah . It's uh when they passed that in Co.ngress i t waso ' t- '\" . they wasn't considerin' Jhice peope whatsoever ... . K: Yeah. but uhh •••• M: It was improvell'.!ent for colored pe.0ple and uh but there's }lfutc people need improvei::ent too .•• K: Yea!\\. [__ ______ -- - ------ ----- SJ 2A .Page 4 McKenzie t;f: •• • but they didn' consider that. K: So\u003e you say you think that the uh integration has helped tha ..\u003c!' . r -cks but uh •••• M: Oh, definitely! K: Yeah? H: Yeah, I think its' helped 'em. And- and more of 'em is wrkin' and ~l.tue- \"\"~s I think :tt's helped them, I don't think it-'~ no way it hurt ..... K: Uh huh. So uh so then maybe this thing has be.en for the better? The uh_ intetration? M: Well~uh i.n some ways- yes. It's helped all way around, you know, lots of time most of 'em wasn' workin', wasn't payin' t#Xcs like we were •• • K.: Uh hub_. H: 11 lo.f , r'\"\" ••• Md now ,,.., got pretty good jobs, moved into some \u0026ood jobs. K: How-how \"\u003eould you say it-it isn't better? The uh integration and the uh •••• M: \\lell, like I say it isn't better- it-it's ju'S+for the colored people. t.: Uh huh, yc\u003cth. M: The.- tbc. uh lover class ftcc people can't get the Gatl'IC bre\u003c'lks they get. --- --- -------------- --------- - - - - - SJ 2A Pea• s K: Bec4uec-bccause they're ,, ,.{.....f. tte , huh? M: Oh, veil, I W\"On't say that nov-I' 11 nay it'e ft'om somethin'. K,: Mm. hm. M: r moan uh uh Chinese or Japanes6 cnn't come ov\"'r :ind get the \u0026Qllle things that they get •••• K: Mm hm. H: It: H: It: H: So, ...!:=======- but you do think it was a be.neflt for the Blacks? \u003cII\\, defhlitcly for the blacql You-you think that was the:lr uh that vu tho .eiau.e•~acks' ,:J .4 4r/.1- {;,;~~ ,., -,,., ? goal• 1n -tn the uh crisis- tr • \\(ell, reUly, uh ..•• ~e p .-..9 K: Really now on account of uh they still ofter eomethin ' 0-ll the timc ... more and 1:t1orc 411 tho. time. K: SO , vhat do you think vas th.8-ir 7.~·.:e:-a\u003c--=~\"\"';i-~ • M: Welll, I really don't lcnow. I ?DUD I-I got out or it .1n '64-I vaa ordered to get out byt£cde-ral judge. And uh which I had nothin' cl1c to do vi.th it after-ve.ll, Nybe '65 ••• It: Ito .... K: Close to '6S. ~ don'-t.Jmov tlie.. exa.ct date \thAn t got out. And I-1 - ---- ----------------------- SJ 2A Page 6 McXenzie went to feder•l cous:t over thia thine 37- about 37 times. K: 37 tbe1TI H: And uh ••• It: Up in JackaoovWe t;1tl1. ,44 .. S:\"$?so,.J ? H: Yee. S~p-rJCourt. And u.h vhJ.ch uh vas Ju.8t o buP:.h of stuff H: K: H: K: -just aoDethin' aot'e or lees to aggravate. u.s, you knov, so-- !Nt uli in t~ end it all ..,rkcd out all right. So, l don' t really seo-no way the )Mfte. people. I mean I-I do 1hope or for.....it vu anythi.ng for I N Fite. C;tro' t4y that Judge. Simpson 6llci c.hei. truted ,.e 'bout-' bout •• Sood oe a mn could be treated. Whal I Y.eMS-? Ho. vaa courteous to you ond uh ••• ? Oh, he always vne and and uh they-they kept-they kept bringin' Simon, I think. H: Yeah. Ue kept-wall, he uh these oiggors had ae eub-pooned up there - soaactimc and uh I'd been up there so much they just called • nn th~ t elophono. and told .. ~ you be there tor q -f- K: Ah ha hah. K: I.t vaa just i:aore or lue aa.srovatin', you Jcoov. And uh for a long ttno 1 d~dn 1 get paid for it •••• SJ 2A Page. 7 McXenzie K: lb hQ, K: But the judge ordered the.a they had to pay me for every t-rip aod .Ueage that I .ado up ./6,1J4' It: Yeah? H: That vaa go1D' 4 urhc aub-poeoa •••• K: Yeah, that'• (/fieet1f H: But ub uh really •od truly there \\faln't th.at Dlch-vell, tbe7 actually ga.1.n notMo', you biov, exactly nothin'. They lost taee;. tbitr loat ground , they lost everytbJ:ng here--t.tll after tlie.. UDI law- VU P•••ed-thia happened befot:O \"tlPt , :f N_...1 ,hf$J. X: So, you'd aay t .hat t'he uh if-if even the.re wasn't even if there weren't nny uh ul' damonatr3tiona or man:hec the )fft:ks would've ga1ucd t he. eeme th.1.ngt M: Well , uh 4.ltcr the lnw passed the federal sove-rn=ent took it over •• • • M: 1 m~n-a.nd 1t' o a known fnct thot you can' t fight the federal government. K: Well, tlioy' r~ bigf !ic.h hoh heh heh. that H: Heh heh heh. But uh under the circumstanccs'-we had here they uh the. Nin thing ho COM in and a.aid he was•gonna take St. Aug-us tine ovu and -in 9-10 day1 •• • • K: Who v a.s Wt t ------ SJ 2A Page 8 McKenzie M: Martin Luther King. K: liartin Luther King? M: Which. he uh he r eally didn't gain no gt'Ound 'WhattiOeVer here which and uh and in fact, they did swim on the bench I\\ that's ~o -;,.c1 big deal- they had a better beach than vc d:f!d. to start with ~·L1.!.~/£ .,,1'-'0'.,,1.0M0\u003c., ,~,,r/L~•c.\u003c:h..;r:o-lc._,;a·\"Wz;!?\u003c'iJ•-'f\u003c------ right up against ours. 7 / K: lleh heh heh. M: So, that still wasn' a big deal and i t took 30 or 40 ~1.ghvay patro1 to wade out there with unifort18 on to do that . K: Yeah. H: So, we never had no-we Md T':.an durin' that time killed-a White boy ••• K: Mr. 14,a~I ? M: Canard. K: Canard? M: That was hi.a sis- QY daughter's his sister-in-law •••• K: Really? H: And that-the one that come in her e and popped the little boy-that's his brother--baby brother. RQ' s married to the one th4t was drivin' the pick-up. K: Mm hmm. M: But uh and that wll.s more or less-really more or less If// l!t'\u0026Eitf . !:.__~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~- SJ 2A Page 9 McKenzie K: How--how did that happen? M: Well, ve--1 really don ' t knOV:- I mean I-I think x-ight at the /.,,_,; iiP Ume I-I'd been out of tovn tiii eithe./1Jacksonville or l.ake Ci ty establtsldn..'/l~ub over thc.r~ and uh '(hen r got back I heard about ~t and uh well he wadn't dead at the time but the uan shot oh, Q// I across a park from ll' street to another vith a .38 pistol and rou knov :1.t just . :1~ ck I{ ~~~~,!--~------------ lC That-th.at - s hard to do. M: i/t;, --Q,.. a,,ir ,maw7 K: I: couldn't hit time house with 4 . 38 much l ess,·/ 1-.J 6\"\"r- t?t.\"l~«~f M: You couldn't bi.t that car --·---b~· ,~· ~·~~~,i~,~\u003c~-~ you couldn't hit ' a tn.31\\ right in the temple and knock his brains out. K: Not :.tf you're tryin'. M: And then uh we got together r ig.ht fas t and I used one of Sheriff Davis patrol cnrs C3nt.e to 0~ , Cll-iae to his mother and stuff -· 0 4:!!\u003c• t n Jacksonville . K: Mm hm. M: Uh she d:ld'Q1 have no vay -.~a\"'\"'«\"r/-'\"t?t=•-- one of the boys in the club uh t ook het: up there but he was dead w·hcn we got there. K: Yeah, yeah. Well, when you soy probably rc!c~ring to the uh ancient •• ~ity-- M: -\u0026 .. ..,./ I •SJ 2A -Page 10 lk.xenz:ie \"K: Ub there's-that's, you knov-tbera'• A big controve-rsy over that and I've read,you knov,severil different descriptions of, you knw, what the club was--could you-could you explo.tn q/;\"'~ ,,\u0026.. c/(,t 6' \u003c•·a ? M: tt wtts a buntin club- -ve had a place out hare vhore ve hunted.· It V411 a big, club open for the public •••• K: Anybody coul.d join? M: Anybody could cooe in •nd hunt and we hid ae.ver-al United States marahall.a come up and bunt vi.th ua and uh t .bat vu ..... . l! That vas Kr. l/ ... lr.,s.# f . /Jd\"' -(1.,;• M: l(e had uh 9 niggers that out rch ue ooo thie.. K: Oh, yeah? H: And ~.=.:;;_~-'-~.Lll.-\"\".L-~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Wo never had no trouble with them or ptvbl~u: with them whatsoever But it voo uh nnc1ent city hunti.n' club-·wa. hnd cards made up ;. ~.: 'e and all aod you could donate to it you vantM ·to. And uh we pro-tcctcd it from fires aod things like th•t--wo. patrolled it our- •\"1f. K: tbttc vaa I be.lieve Kr. /Jle.t--St, ~ H: -------~l/,\"\"h\"'\"''\"''\"'''-''-- yeah. J:: Ye.ah. H: /? Nt14G But v.u uh Robinson .-1-t4.u..Jl10'\u003c.eiric?~- Company but 1'6efte owed it . ) C.' K: Uh huh. SJ 2A Poge 11 McKenzie !(! I vas in charge of it. We had our own camp out there and every­thing. and w~ killed a lot of. deer t·• the uh cl'1b still in o.x.istcnce? Ahh, no, they closed /\".''/\"'\" . that p,1.ac..e altogether. K: Oh, yMh? M: Do -do you mean do 'We still hunt? K: Oh, t meant. you know, sort of in an.organized wAy. K: No, no, they've uh closed that !J:\u003e..tfi\u003c/\"' down. - they closed it // last ye.at'. Mm lw. ~f~, Yeah. }fas up tUI last year but uh 1t- 1t- wcll it's just the got all the pastures now, you know. That•$ what we ws -.having--that' a why we. formed this club­~ here the litt~ man'd have a place to hunt • K: Yeah. :But it-- and we dAN4 real good. We had it from. '52 uh up to a couple of yea.rs ago . K: Uh. But how many people would you say were in it? M: We has as high as eleven - eleven hundred. K: Eleven hundred, huh? H: And uh we'd see a membeOhip card-course yo+hat you w\u003ca.nta give--•nywhcre from three dollars Up ••• • K: Yeah. 11cKenzte H: I mean we're--if a. kid W\"ttnted to go huntin' ho,-if he dido' have it with a cord you gotta honor card to t4ke somebody with you. And uh we had ti lot of kids in it too -young k.ide condn' up huntin'. lC: I don't believe I-I've never hunted dee.r but I've done duck huntin' before and it'•···· M: But we Md uh we Md several ponds up there to bunt duclt. too lfl /\" l el ond it was some turkey out there and-~ equ1rrel •••• K: I understand turkey• are hard to kill? M: Yeah. It's fad busincae you use_-========--------­- ..-=========:-:you're liable to get ehot:-there\\s too many 8113teura out there.. K: Ah bah bah-a little dangerous huh? Well, did the-did the-did the club 1n an orga.niied way uh partic-ipate 1n o oqpat ·~..., in tha counter-demonatrotiona nnd stuff and ,·,... Ct•c6jr.J ••• 1 K: Yeah, ve-ve ret\u0026l--vo re-when they paraded. in town? Ve paraded X: Well, vb.at do you .eo.n-hov vould you all go about that? M: Just all got together end just paraded down there. with the lav just 11.ke they dona. )(: What d'-9 you mC\u003ci.n-just tMrchin• and--? SJ 2A Page 13 ·McKenzie ·M: Harehin' • • • yeah. K: Well, nll right -you- you knoW I - t/fiece-. ce......, -.s 4 f,p,\"' ~\"' :\u0026. f\"C.tlt/ :/ ti.• fy;i/,, t\u003etuff !n/\\Miam.t.-llerald and uh .•.• M: l:e:lll ••• . Daytona. Pape1•as the only one1that. give us a ~ugh time. K: Uh huh. M: I just-you kno..,...- 1 just want;l.:o verify a couple of things that t -hat I re.ad in this pa.per and you tell me if there true. or false you know, qualify them or what and it was in the Herald that I read th.a~ y'8.ll would carry guns in your cars in the uh vbile tha uh demonstrations were going on- you kept •• • M: I' carried .8: -gun. K: ~eah? M: 1 was ord0red by the state and by the sheriff' s department be-causo 't:f1 life b3d been threatened t\u003eeveral ti.mes. K: Oh, t:\"eally? Who uh threatened you? M: Well, we don't really 1c.now but uh I mean-I never carried it on me. t always carried it in the car •.. . qtor.f,1i,;//1J everywhere I went in I \u003e the C3'C. K: l(m hm. H: But uh flfe\"19 hr U club,no, they didn' cnrry guns. K: They d:i.dn' carry guns? M: Nah. Now, the l.o.w when they oarched with U$ they carried suns- and blackj~cks and e verything else. SJ 2A - ~•\u0026e 14 ·He Kenzie ·K: Were they sher iff's police and uh •• • • ? H; llighway patrol. K: Highway patrol? M: Yeah. K: What obout uh-vhat about the uh you know, it ' s widely Tepor-ted that y'all used the citizen band radio to coordinate--? p;. vq,ah) M: ~· we had citizen band radi o all of us had had citizen band . I think in any club · · C\u003c j;i 1/ 4,,,.. m St. Augustine. we had about 32 · :../ Q?4- · · ·a·r£ · ·*-e Y,;,-e: L\u003c AJ'd we had ~ctter ~et up and we.11 , ~\"O just patrolled all day and all ~ght-, we knew what was goin' on all the tirM. K: Mm i..n. M: And uh but we done i t ~egal~all the radios was legal •• •• K: Yeah. H: \\le worked on our own band and we worked with the city police and the sheri ff's department . K: Well-well vb.at exactly would you patrol for ? M: Well, just 11ke sometime · twelve o'clock at night t hey' d get uh uh a parade together and they gonna pal:'ade up town, see. (t 1u./, / J.- . O'°' ' 'f- ~ ~t\u003c•C rw@r/ ./~- o.I ., and then they were gonna do it / I any how. K: Uh huh. ,-- SJ 2A ~age 15 Y.cKcnzie M: And they just got to stop-that's all. But uh and then somebody'd call us on the radio-they'd-well, we just had somebody everywhere. M: Like wh.en they \\o\"e.nt to the beaches-we knew it before they ever got there. K': tlml M: And that they \"''ere goin' and it' s just like-~--''--\"\"'-\"\"\"::::::-~::::::::..... .............. police \"''Ork. K: And then when you found out where they were going you vould uh-? 'M: We-ve'd go there. K: Yeab. M: See what wa~ gOin' on. See if there was any foul play or anything far as them swirnmin' in the ocean-~ didn' give a damn about it. K: Uh. huh. Wh.o-\\lho vas. it that would Uh tA.t.. hoe1 SheX'iff Davis I said the ub you know, the young whites would be out there tr-yin' to dunk 'co ond :i:tvff. Who you blov who --? M: Oh, them were kid6-ind1viduals. M: Uh ua there was a lot uh people-you'd be SUl.\"prised at the tour-ists and-',/.~'.l.\"'\"\"'u\"'+gf\"'-'----- just didn' like it you know ••.• K: Yeah? M: It wasn't uh but I wouldn't get vet But uh you uh SJ 2A Ppge 16 McKenzie they had uh uh salt water mission boys~they were out there 1n boats-- K: Uh huh. M: • •• protectin' 'em and I-I don't believe they ever tried to drown •ea--they tried to scare 1 em--they did run ' em out of the water several times . •• ·• K: Hm to. So, what you all wuld just uh the ancient city hunting cl ub ; ~ = : would just go dO'Wn and, you know, uh just sort of watch the pro-cced: tngs or wha.tt ){: Well, vo usunlly knew what was goin' on all the tiine wc.-\"e had '/le o ;,-, We had our own band and uh ...- e uh strictly ~μ,~\"-'-m-\"~,/-~\"~\"'~''~\"-'--- J\u003c: Yeoh. M: And tth we Md nothin' connectin' with the city p0lice or nothio' wi.th the sheriff's departr:ient on tM radios. K: They-they· __ _::::::::=======----? II: Their radios ws their ow. T ~;.,Ir tX ./I c/.;;-J-i\u003c••rl ro.I/ t't~pa= /,·,~ a,.r/ .J)/t.\"1 ·' r Work together • •• • K: But y'all didn't work together on .•• ? ~ : No, strictly CD 's. ~ K: Uh huh. M: Now, we had good ones- ..-. e didn ' have no trash. We could talk nearly the - .$'i. .:lC lw £i-.., ~ with 'em. SJ 2A fage 17 .McKenzie ((,: Were the-uh _/d why~'t the integrationi.6ts seek the injunction against you? M; Well, they just try 81\\ythins they could think of to try to tie I me up you know. It ju.st va.sn•.,t. \u003cV• 6(,4.... :Z-d clan~. , v I didn' do anytM:ng. K: llo.11, i f-- M: I t's ;not illegal to go any where there's a bunch of n,iggers. K: Yeah, I unde.rstand that but :C~s just, you know, wond~rin' vhy '1hy would they uh why: would they try to \u0026' f t31J 1Nj11,x.;l,tn.'J ) M: Well, tlwt' c 'Why I im..1gine the judges se\"''C.d it oll up in the end-c.a:use tharfa.dn't nothin' to it. The uh sh~riff t.lent up ther e and the county judge and uh the mayor and all of us was up at federal court --\"q~f'--'a\"\"\"\"N£\"''-rl-12\"\"'0,_1',.,=/ __________ v I was uh mostly up there --the most uh •••• K: Well. uh the papers reported uh another organization called uh Manucf's ltaiders~is that the _..:::::::::::::::::::::'! M: We.11 , you-you -that was just picked up ca.use uh like you say there was uh bunch of Manuc7s here and that was ju\u0026t uh some.­thin' picked up . there never vas such 4 thing as - os Manuc}I • I give 'em to the sheriff 7 _ ___ the judge one and uh ~y z;1/, ;~ r .\u003ci;'\u003eNJr.1 PAio --\"\"'-\"-C-·_,,-.,,,,\"'\"\"'--'C'-\"!?\"\"\"d!\"'\"s'---\"\u0026=~,,,,;;\"~----'ask ' ei:a up-up t:o the club. SJ 2A . Page 18 ·McKenzie I ain't goin out there.\" I snid, ~ell, \u003c you' re welcome to come if you · want. K: llhlmp. M: And uh but that ' s ju.st somethin' that got started - the newspapers K: M: I(: thought of som~individJa.ls thought • •• . So eh that 1 s j ust mostly uh _ .=::==:::::__ ? l1ostly tnlk.,, daafht\u003c at' 1f7' Ctch I uh l read in another place and Sherif f Davis kinda confirmed it tha t ufng had uh you know had a little organization uh also. \\.kis he. uh as well oraa.ntzed as uh y'all? M: Oh, definitely not. K: Nobody was . M: Not even the sheriff's dcpart,mC?nt or the police department. K: Yeah? M: tJbai like I said to·e uh had good equipment to work with. m d ve worlced a?t!;,. i'i,1., I with the sheriff' s department and the police depal.\"tment. -=======,,,.a-\" they was ther~ or uh they had a few l ittle c'Xt: •• .. .-;0,.,,. uptown-some knock.in' aroW\\d but . aa-lh..,,'# other than '\" . £ ,,;.. 6· rfr t hen and uh and uh~ they had a little (\"' ..._ r-J, .. .J- ).. i~,.. . ; rJ\" up there one nigl\t and bustin' -.,z\"';.\"/_4. ..,1..,_,,,., _,+,._ilu-.''\"'\"f';r--- - - .::;,===============:::::.- photographers. They were ordered I I -- - SJ 2A Page 19 McKenzie not to parade and we w~re too. And we didn' and they decid~ th.ey vas goin ' to do i t anyhoW. that K: Mm ho. Well, uh Sheriff Davis, you know, s.ays1you're not- ond I've read uh several articles sayin' that you're not also uh in the Klan-but S'impson claims you vere and let's eee who else -1,,,/~· M: ~ Simpson never c l aii:led I was. K: He said that t he uh ancient city hunting club was uh. was uh ;; y ;:. . a c Ml/wt;Y. .. M: He was b, J.•ou~tl uh.-• but it was never proven. K: No, uh and I believe the Uouse ·on unAm.erican Commit- Activities Connittec said that the _:nci ent c:_ity ~unting club was c/{,,,,,tCOI .,_ ::. number 519 of the United Flor ida . KKK . . uh was thia true1 M: Well, well, I don't know I 'm a C4tholic and I don't A':vl'{.ol rhr \u003c;'.t,.,n ~ ,,,.,,, I r(;(f',-j,y., /,, o/'ft~ c4.,.,, K: * hln. M: All tho Hanucys is Catholic, see? K: Yeah. M: We were born and rAised Catholic. In fact, a11 my peopl e vere, so uh \\lell __+- ,.C_o.'~'\"'-j,\"-'\"'\"'-r'4\"'\"''- we'd uh they'd been around •• •• I K: From the ;nci-ent .~ity? M: Uh no, from St. Augustine. K: Mm ho. SJ 2A Page 20 McKenzie. !f: And they uh wasn't from Florida mer/f•t at/of. AlobNDO. I K: Uh huh. H: Coveroor' s • And ch dovo io'lwallace' s old kicking grouods. K: Yeeh. M: B\\1t uJ\\ I met some fine people in the Xlon. I(: Yuh? H: And I tbt.nk it's just as legal as the HMCP. K: Well , it's not --it's not an illegal organization. SO, you would say t'hc .!ncient _c1ty !'unting: club wu not uh a part of ::. ;:- :.. the clan, vae oot a kl.avemt H: Ho. X: No? Uh. I know you say you think it is a good o,r\u0026anizotion-it's uh .• •. H: The Klao? K: Yeah. M: Detinitelyl X: W~ coul.d you describe for •C vhat ub vhat you think their goals Arc, their uh-why is i t good? M: Well, I wouldn't know C4uao I don't knov that much about it. - aost oC t~ etuff vas al.L aecrct anyhow. K.: Km hm, yeah they are a secret organiz.ation. M: So, uh you wouldn • t - thoy •d have to trust you -----~r~:,,_~-~k~\"~'~\"~~ra'- ___ ------------ ---- SJ 2A Pago 21 ' ., I / I -' ~.\u003c r wtor~ af .,lh' .i\"t:!eetinp a,_,g f-\u003c /..t'.':I e~ \"• pealc:.ic;,gc and ub well uh they just talk fact• •••• M: Uh huh. ~~ .. \"\"•},, K: c , .. ; •z' \\. up north and hO'W they-the nigger s was act.ing up th.a.re And 4Jf£\" they Md everything in the world :ind ti.11 th~ froedom they w;tntcd •••• K: Uh bub. M: I .'k 1A1 Nev Jersey- they pre.ached on the !acta and uh l lil.ed it myse.lf uh I used to go t o \u002611 their a peeches and r we.nt a1.l tho vay t o Alabama to one. K: Oh yeahf M: Md t• d go down south to 'em. but uh I never ct.en uh a vhatcba­Q .co.17' real bad man in the Kl8J'1. K: . Uh hul1. M: Everybody l mot wtt.G just tope. X: Mm tn. bid they have many meetingo around hore during the uh-? M: In St. Augustine? K: YCAh. During the uh crisis? H: They hod a lot of uh uh wide open spuklnga ••• • IC: Yeah. H: ••• had 'ea in the pad and uh they had 'e• out the-re by the bowlin' alley and uh the law vas alvays there14.t\u003etvo~. SJ 2A l'age 22 K\": llh did you know-did •••• M: And they di.dn' go veiled or no thin' they vent in e A) out£it _ _.,{....... ._ ,f'------ K: I don't bclit.ve eh.- i t '8 against the lnv to wcor o CllOak, r believe. K: Yop. X: Did you uh know the one fell.a fr01a Atlanta nomcd J.B. Stoner? H: Yep, rc4l. well. K: _ lle).l , )11\\at did you think ot hi.lo? J.. -111.,-, ltf H: 0~ he vas a hcll of a nice guy. K: Yeaht Ub vould you-could )'OU uh describe to .e your relationship vith M•? M: Well, he uh S:2-n?1 - defended ae in Jnclc.aonvillc. K: Yooh. M: Stoner did. K: Uh huh. M: And l\\C worked with uh uh a local l awyer hero, Frank UO\\mrd. K.: Pronk Jlowsrd? II: Ha K: So uh H: But Fr atllt Howard vas t:IJ lewyer. K: Uh huh. Would you say in tenas of-in. teraa of the uh SJ 2A K: Well, lav. I J t hat he knew the law, /,J~ // -cilf fA11ho• • a un /'\\ knows the ) X: Yeah, he is. He's a--from vhat 1 undcratnnd, he'\u0026 o very good attorney. Uhl\\ did you all have-other than a, you know, a client - •ttornoy--V (11: If,, wPS ~ ~.......,. rclationshio/as far •• I kl'low uh, hie ct.and.a.rd wa.a--ha vae uh the firm's lavyc.r from Georgia. I mean, the klao, I guess you cal.l 'C., I don't k:nov hov, what they went by • IC: Ub hub. K: lut uh and he like 1 \u00268)', if v c got a place to have 'ta (t , hl\"e ve. fl ______ they vel2. they ver~ got6fta havo a speaking ton.ite a lot of the times if ve could help them vJ.th it ~ helped thect with it, gett11:i' you ktl.ow, permits and thin\u0026fJ.Thcy didn' do notbin ' without permi.\u0026sion. K: Sheriff D.'lvis k1nd4said the lQ.41n uh, you know, ~lien they come 1n they 80rta looked to you for, you lcnov, a little help in orgru\u003e.izlng • .. K: ----~y;\u003c...:.:.o :\u003e_,._ _____ ,vea, then uh w juat didn' want no- 7 body gctt.in' outta line... I eeao you can't-you un't control a thouaand pCtOple. K: Yeah. Is-U-woul.d you s.ay that's be about the eizc of the-that vould show up for the uh U.n 11aectiogat SJ ZA Poge 24 ·Mcl\u003cenz.ic if H: Well, l wouldn't say that now. I 1d say u~t waa necessary they could soc ninety thouaond I K: Yeah. M.: But uh uh .oat of theao peopl\u0026-juat ordinary people-go out to these epuldna and thtnga o••6 w kn K: Ho ID.Sor-you'd K: lt'e w..ztn' t'/111 f\u003cNl},.J unlesaj\\ ahMrd it ,.ourself, you knov. K: M: K: K: K: I Nn hn . -nttP And W ha.d 6' ni88Cra to 80 out there One night ••• • nlgM Ye.ab. tho uh tho /\\ out by the drive-in ? By the uh bovltng alley. Bowling alley? Yeah. I understood they got thrashed out there pretty bad. M: \"nley coroo in tlu:oush t ho back clnim1n' they waa go in' f i shi n' in the. dark. K: Ycob. M: But nov that va1 Kl..on. X: Were you--were you out there that night? H: I vas thue. K: Uh hul1. H: But they rul.ly dido' t got hurt. We uh 1topped it right av:ay-the aher.1ff 1 B department woe there in ju.st a few minutes •••• K: Nn bn. ·SJ 2A .Page 25 McKenzie. H: ••• put a atop t ·O it. ncy tr,\\.,, 4;.\u003c rq1 J \u003c,,,, I K: So, you vould aay th.at, you lcnov, other than, you l:nov, other than vorking, other than Kr. Stoner uh being, you know, partially re.pre1e.o.tiag you uh y'all vo-rked fe.1.d.y closely too-gather llht H: Ob, ye.ah. We.-ve vere very close. they would come 1D. and and we bad ooc uh ________ .a.....,,',-'-f_ _.6\"-\"'-6'='-~/,... .,._' ,--- / over where that bread place 11 now which vaa a bakery then. And ve holped them sot tho propor·ty. ~. K: Uh huh • M: • •• ood got tho lca1c on tr(...d uh .,t-J,,,; I that owned city bakary at that time. nnd he g ive us permission, you know •••• K: Yeah, M: We hod a lot uh help and it wao juot like uh evcr(),ody here vais YorkJ.n ' to\u0026oth~r--tbc ma.yor , tho city police , sheriff ' c. department, Ancient' City Huntin' Club, 'n uh- we r eally didn't: nce.d anymore. We vos quite.~\u003c/~-*=\"\"\"'\"'----· K: Uh huh . M: And they would knock v1ndov1 out atound town. X.: Was tho.t the klon1 H: Nooo. They' re-colored. K: Uh bu!\u003e, SJ 2A Page 26 ·Mct\u003ceru:ie M: 'nle klan didn ' t do nothin' lik~ that~tbey didn't go around bustin' windows and things like that • . X: Who do you think-\"\"WhO do you think· uh threw t he fire bomb into that­that motel--Manson Hot el? M: Uh that--it wa\u0026 definitely colored. K: Think so? H: Definitely. K: I thought t he b\u003c\u003emb went in uh after the Civil Rights demonst'tation had been passed W:d uh:!'.-\u003c - -fliC. 'j)\"Y 1-w/ H: Welll ••• K: •• 4-t integrated and then, you know, it was, you know, being.._ __ _ h 11 :fh1. y JI, /.ft ... c .... 7 M: Well l , y0u wac $ 1potQd to integrate. K: Yeah, but at onc~tbcn white counterpickets, you know, picketed them, d i.dn ' t they? M: Uhh, l don't think they ever picketed _ _,$\"\"--'''-. ''=\"•' •:.';'1-'- --- at the I M:tnson •••• K: No? M: That' c t:here they put them gators in the swimmin' pool there? K: And t hen- the acid in thQ switmin' pool? M: Noo, bleach. K: Bleach? Well , you know •••• M: 114 11oh ha hah ha. K: K: K: · SJ 2A · Page 27 Well, what about--what obout L. Yt1\u003ch ~ Did you know hia? Yeah? Kcltenzie the uh uh klansMn nrunM uh Connie; dono mo1t-he was a preacher and ho knew bis buoiness. K.: Uh h uh. M: And them, they would come down here from-thc111 tt«\u003e prenchers 'd come dOtln here. from up north and anything th•y v.mtod to aok hS.. he K: Ye.ah. \"' \"1 // •d M J _,_N.=N~rl'-_,.,_..\".'-,\"\"\"\"--'be have -'Open debate vi.th 'e• any time-right in /I the pnrk. K: And so you'd cay you wOrked kinda. c lose with him too? M: Oh, 411 of 'ea, ye.oh. Couso they - thcy-thny were radtc.al people and they - they were in to let you know vb.at was gollng on becau.se :tt: bad happened to them ftr•t. Be was out in Little Rock _,,d then in Alabama and uh he-he ju1t l:nev vb.at '\"-as goto' on. What- vh3t the-y verc up to. K: Uh so you would soy you \"WOrked with the:ta s.ay oimiltu: to the vay you vorkcd vith uh Mt;\". $Toner? M: Yeah. They'd betn to 11\\1 house J t.ioe.s and I'd been to where they stayed. -------- ---------- -- ---- SJ 2A . Pose 28 · McKenzie K: Yeah. Where-- \\i:bere did they stay down here? M: Ahh, at the motels mos tly. K: Uh huh. M: But um ••• K: And so, you a11 \"1ould get together and coordinate your marchct\u003e your counter-demonstrators, or what •.• ? M: Wellt you see we- for a long t ime ~e didn't have any a~u:ches . We just figured the only way to beat the:n was to beat 'era on their own game. K: Uh huh. M: And 1:t worked. K: Wh-wMddya mean1 That's why you brought up the tnarche.s? M: Yeah. K: Uh huh. banner M: And uh we had big on the front of it-uh a man and hit\u003e wife towed it--wtth a big rattlesnake on it t hat Mys, \"Don't Tread On Me\"~ and it led the po.roide. K: Yeah. M: We were awful quiet, we didn't make no \u003ci .,.,,.4,jt,... we didn't put out ' \" \\ a -==========:.:or nothin' like that, you know. K: Uh huh. M: It's uh--we got up there one time and they-they jumped q: (/\"tf ~./ (he. parade-wwas just a matter of a fev minutes •n a few of •em got their heads knocked but uh •••• SJ 2A Page 29 .McKenzie !(: Yeah. K: ••• there vae enough lov rJ.ght there to handle it. X: When tbe blacb would •arch out uh ve.re you and Hr. Stoner and Kr. Lynch orsanJ.stng the people that, you knov, vould .uh gather and vatch tho .archca and etofft H.: Oh. no , definttel.y not. Jutt pe.oplo ldib (/J\u003ct~t/ a'(.; ~f'- On 11::.,,. O:d,.J. K: 'ttley vould be their ovn, but t 'he mn:hq you or gaa.ized? H: lbc urchce vo--wc--wc kinda- kl.Deb eet ' em-eveey tioe they'd 1113.rch, ve' d 1Urch. X: But uh uh the straight cou:ntcrdeaonstr;fltors and the. guys that M: were. uh_. you know• uh .:·.:;#=.,•.,f_,,.+\"'\"A\u003cc.·.._~ka.\u003ca:;u,t!:s.l·..:ku,,,u.,.,._.- t\u003c\u003c\u003c2J¢..,,•+a\"'\"·'.- (/ Ii I' -----~-::r:-.-1_· -~\"~'\"~'-------'people coiain ' in town uh t hey wcr~ mostly people outto K: Ycoh? M: And uh sOmQt.1m\u003c!: t hcro 'd bo 3 or 4 buo, lot1d1 of 'cm come in here ond uh they h.od o lot of kid a from j l.m'l.ior col lege in P41- atka nnd differa.nt ona..e around , you lcnov, so •••• // ,• I • nlcf' d cooe up he.re for countcrdeaonstr4tions: • • • ~ H: Oh, yeah • • •• K: o.nd du.nkin\" blacU in tho wade-ins and et uff'l H: Tcah • • • va.11, I don't know about th.at. I think t hat was just kid• oo th~ beoch vho didn' t like theo on their beach cause ve vasn ' t--whitee vun't -the 1heri{f didn't allov the whites ,,: d/1DJ.u\"\" beach. SJ 2A Pogc 30 K: Uh huh . H: He didn ' t want ' cm dovn there meddlin' with nobody. K: What uh- vei:c thc'Ce •any uh local uh, you know, you ••id some ot-Jm)st of J},,, r~~. out of stat:e-we.-ra thore many loca.1 uh klansoen i4volvcd • you. know, fro=: the- St. Auguatine. St. Jolms area? H: Well, l didn't know none of 'em. K: No? K: Uh I knew everybody t'hot was :in the Ancient City llunt1n' Club but t d.idn't probably had ~: Yeah. M: 1 don't l\u003cnooJ. biov-I don't thUlk-it vas juct ,, . , ~, .-.,. you knov t K: But you didn' t l\u003cno~ of them, lwh? M: huh uh . lil\u003co uh they-we K: Uh what ~out the klansnten from Jacksonville? Did you uh • •• ? H: A lot of ' em COM d01rm. K: A lot of klansatnf M: A lot -\"''\"'/-_-_,.,,_,_1 ____ -knev and uh l went to several of their •eetin's up t~re. They had t.he.se big rallies, you know. K: Were they h.avd.nS them whilo the rio t s were to1ng on? The rallies? M: Oh, YVh· K: Yeah? SJ 2A Page 31 M: They had them Jn Jncknonvllle, different places and uh •••• K: And so you vere uh-you'd serid some people up_:z%..,.., ., ..._,.._o;jf,_·k=\"-\"/'\"h\"'\"-''._-7 M: Our people ----'=====::::::::::::=========------- none of theo --====:::=.___!up there. K: Uh huh. M: We. you knov, find what vaa go1n• on cause this here like I say this Connie Lynch he'd been around. He'd uh been plenty of places wh_e.re this same thing vnn bdppentn •••• K: Ye.oh. I{: •••• alr eady had happened •••• X..: Yeah. K: : ... and uh ••.. IC..: Uhh v~t .a.bout uh I - I believe I read one tilM thl• uh the kl.an uh ftO?!l J4Cksonvi11c \u0026Ot in touch with you to get this one fella a job down hero uh .. I believe the fella' s no.ma was uh Ro'S~? M: 1 don't know ' im. K: No? Ub I - I-I don't remember the f.ects, you know. just. you know, K: K: the way I read it but I mean-got him a job on a f t.bin' boat or somet.hJ.n,g you sot ' iat Don't k:nov if you recall, huht ·:Not that I recall) NO· . , Obly, on the other hand, what d°(ou '$( ve/fe all •bout? think the NAACP and the EtL S\u003c .£..~ H: lJe.11, it's uh for bcttcr1n' the black is all. K: H: K: H: K: H: K: H: SJ 2A Page 32 Y4'Ahf And uh they had a goal they were tr yin' to reach and uh •••• And do you think that g\u003cNil vns integrot1ont ::;: t,;.,,. Yaob, definitely/ ltti3t' s tho main thins. Y~Ah . You think they \"'·ere •• • ? Cottin' into the schools and one thing 'n another. U do you think they were communist1t c (J}H~tl , N'f 'r f Well, I-I bad a picture at a Mo9r·•a MetiD' vbich like you aay, thn.t • s newspaper and nobody knova vhcthcr to believe it or not •••• K: Reh ycaa butt K: But t.lb ch uh Martin Luther King wae: there. K: Uh huh. M: But that don't mean nothin' • K: That doesn ' t mean he's a •• •• M: Uh uh a cocnunist or not, yeah , uh I wouldn't aoy that. K: So, you don't think he vas uh -t'Ome SOl't of cocnun.ie:t uh coo- H: K: H: apiracy uh formenting --===:::=._;f Well, what tood would it be to the comunil:tst Ahh, it's you know, it's sc.e-a bit IJ.:f\"or • to underatand too but a lot of people, you know, thouiht-thought it vas- +Ji-f 1',L. ,,._,,,. t H. ,. ... ~. ., . ...., .L~ iloticed ,, ,.,, lcAtpt..J - l Well, it seem.s·llike he went to 411 kinda . me.ctina1 a!~.1\"',,. I and thi,nss you kno-J, so uh, it ws uh-so did I. IJO it wouldn ' t been J'/r}?r,:,.,y ------------- -- - SJ 2A Pase 33 McKenzie I woulda seen or seen my picture anywhere. you know •••• K: Mill •• hm. M: I've never bcc.n in a ~ngress meetin' _,.a,_c._...;.11;.._r.\\;-.;.,',/',,_ \".«.·.:;-.r_ ____ 0 that I know of, heh heh heh heh heh K: lleh heh heh heh heh. Well, uh how would you uh typify uh sheriff Davis's uh uh Ottem.pt\u0026 uh just the city in gener~l'\u0026 uh uh their methods of uh t:cying to control the uh the. demonstrations ? M.: I: think they done a t.'Onderful job-the shc.ri:ff' s department and tlic. ctty police. and the mayor. And uh when they asked us not to pArade we just didn't do it. I mean ve didn't go against the law a.t a11. K.: Uh. huh. I'm still. a little confused-you know, you said you would vork., you knov, vith the sheriff and with the city police •••• if M: W:el.ll, nov'\\.,e. thought there' wa.s goin'-. i f they thought the.re wns goi.n' to be a big st~nk or a big problem up t01.l'r\\ •••• K: Uh huh. M: • •• we'd go up there and stand a round and see •••. K: Yeah. M: ••• t he 1\\1.ght they did have a camera~reakin' and t1tuff up there •./ I \u003c , K: Uh. huh. that was - that waa just one night when they uh •• • ? H: Just one night . K.: Uh huh. Were-did sheriff Davi.s make you bto n special deputy? SJ 2A Page l4 .McKenzie M: I vas already n deputy. K: Yeah? M: Yeah, nnd uh Siopson took it away frorn me. K: Uh huh. M: Me and one other guy. K: t-r believe uh sheriff Dav1s,\u003e.jou know, kinda characterized your uh his relationship to you he kinda uh terms of his liaison of ficcr and so you ~'Ould uh kinda help him keep you know, informed as to what w.s gom• on ••• 1 ~ ~ ~ M: /a.at was at-/,·}.':\u003e, ,...,/-- what we knew and we done the sam.e ' , VC vs • K: Y•ah? H: l'f ho. thought there was gonna be trouble we tried to head it off. and juaflik.e when they ordered them not to go into these places and sit down and be on the floor? K: YMh? M: K: M: We had--we had no part in that ~ uh strictly the sheriff's department handled that. Uh huh. OS Uh nov G:iias a deputy once or tvicc I hc.lpcd h1tn at the jail, you bow, had a big crowd out the.re • •. I think around the same time 1bout the saioo time they put Miss l'eabody in j\u003ctil. K: She's quite a character, isn't she? SJ 2A Page 35 · licKcnz1e H: She was, ~t'ight. K: Sheriff Davis was tel1in' me that he's gotten a few letters \u0026ug- M: K: gcstin\u0026 that he write uh Mt's. Peti.body and uh sugge$t that she:- she uh hel.P the bl:lcks in Boston integrate their Gchools, heh heh heh heh. A little-little turnabout there, I think. 1-1.,, ~e .:;iOI'·/ vas the. g,ovemor of-of Ma$sachu\u0026etts ••.• Yeah. Well, so then you would say, you know, you-you ~'Orkin fair ly closely with this uh with the uh you l\u003cnw thi\u0026 kind official-would you say\u003cl most of the uh Yhite people in uh S~. Auguatine. ~. K: Pretty much solidarity, then. huh? H: Yeah, it's uh '1ell, like I tell ya they didn't y:le.l.d no ground 1 ~ C: 0 :=;;cA lot of money \\o.'08 spent for nothin •. K: Mm hmm. Ahh, I .also, you know, read where. that uh were--the uh paople that gathered on the uh back in the uh old slave mat:ket and stuff to uh uh counter the uh counter the marchers? I read \"1h.ere a lot of your uh uh or some of your sons vere involved in that? •SJ 2A Poge 36 McKenzie H: !i.•6 . /?IV ,.((4,.,. one•, YAAh J 7 X: Uh huh. Did-did ao could )'OU exert any influence ovt-r those k..iQd of happen.1.aga uh in an iad-irect vay through your sons, or ••• f K: Ohh vcl.l, the:y~l.1aten to ... JC: Yeah M: K: M: They'd lieten to •o.Uh and they'd have a--vell, one of /'M' who.n the 1 _.,t:r.,,.. •._ , __b oy we killed. I a,,,,e e ./ : fi.,as I I /\u003cJJ(\" , them was and oua of the bullctn lodge right behind the seat behind hill. K: Hmmh. M: But uh--yeoh there woo uh ocvctal of tl1ca:i into it. K: And did-would they have ony influence ove:r t he uh over the uh M: K: M: other people that \\ICt'O uh Q.Othcrcd afot.t.IJ._ ? Well, not\"\"llOt necets4rily. Whot kinda-what kind of things would you uh, you knov, uh you told me you aa1.d they voul-d uh obey you-\"'-Mt kind of thin.es ~u \u003cdo•· 'el 'tar' k.-1t'. l/\u003ct ... \u003cfol I/. / -n•' Welll , like uh if 1 tell 1 ea don't go nigger tolm-stay outta there. They wouldn't go. SJ 2A Page 37 McKenzie K: Uh huh. M: And uh ve have no bus:incss down there unle.ss we /.t/{lft,,,i the.re paradin' , you know, and uh but then lot occasions we go through n igger town to get to the hospital or which 1'' d so down there when I was ready and I~ I never had no probl erae . I q.- never had no r\u003c\u003e\u003c:ks throwed at me ~ no shootin' at me and nothin' like. that. K: Nm hm. So you ••• M: They did bust the windshield in my vife' s car uh but th..'lt was .-d.-on\"e'\"\"'r,.,ig=h\"t\"\"\"h\"'er\"'e\"-'in=---W.est Augustine. K: What would you-what would you say , you kn0w, ther e's all these different kinda police in uh- - what was the di fecreoce in uh the uh local, you know, the uh sheriff's department, the c ity!s department , their efforts to- to uh maintain peace and uh order Blld the uh. state officers- the uh troopers? H: We had-W\"e had some of the finest state officers you ever seen thexe. K: Y~ah? H: And they were all tops. K: They were? K: Ahh, when they \"'ere 8earchin' cars they searched whi.tc people' s cai:-8 just like they did the colored. SJ 2A Page 38 He.Kenzie M: And uh •••• K: What'd the uh •••• K: They didn't lik.e it, they didn't like goin' to the beach and ttdin' out there vith the.1.r unifon:i.s on and ju...t ao 3 or 4 could swim vhicb it vaan' really right when another .Uc dovo. the beach they could svill free. as they wanted to.on t'he same beacl\\. lt: H.m. bm. Ub. would tho uh local-the local. polt.co do the eame I!: ~ H: K: tlrlng.-..earch both. uh. both white and black cars? l don't th:tn.k 4 ~ far .. ,. polJ.ca did it .... They just search the blacbf No. 1f they caught eomebody) attd they searched ae. \"teah? M: Uh before hut uh uh nl.l they found wat/a gun in the car vh:lch I had perm.16810n to carry•well, I w~s a deputy anyhow ao l could carry it if I wanted to. K: Hoa ha. H: But uh •••• K: \u003e'hy--i.1hy dld Simpaon t4k4 :iour dcputyship away? H: Well, l wasn't a bonded deputy--! was just a honor deputy. We had it for the po.at (!19, (,.,/a( _ _ K: Yeah.? SJ 2A ·Page 39 Mckenzie M: And uh and then uh one of tb,c boys was a bonded deputy--jus t that he didn't think we oug,ht t o be \"'\u003corkin' with the sherUf'\u0026 dcpar tnent. K: So, he just ordered you off the uh • . •• M: Ordered the sheriff to release ue. K: Mm hm. K: Whi ch--we wasn' t on no payroll, neither one of us. K: Was -~ere there many uh member s of the Ancient City Hunting Club on his uh~ M: Deputies? K: - vi.th his deputies? Yeah. K: Ob., r i.J'l'lagine there. vas several of them--! don' t know how many. K: Uh huh. Were they-were the• speci31 deputics,:1do you tl:dnk, pretty effective in the uh crowd cont~ol and things like that? M: Ohh, uh his deputies was tops. K: Uh huh. H: His payroll deputies. K: Yeah and l - I me~nt that, · you know, special deputies 3nd he hnd a bunch of thcm--people that he just swore in for the crisis • •• • M: Weill. · • · K: . • • ond stuff. M: Uhh he never do11e that 'n if he did, I didn' know nothin' about it. . SJ 2A Page 40 McKenzie Uhh, most people jus went on the.tr own:o you know, like a ~ 1 / ·~~a..,,. \u003c'l-=- jus1l.ike the pttr.ad~--people come from Ocala and all around to be in the parade, jus • •. • K: Mm hln. H: Jus ' n • •• • K: Wel-uh when the-when the whites did par ade was it moatly uh out of town wh.ile; w.I1 .1'e ; vhitcs and klansmen and stuff or was it mostly people in town ••• ? M: Tbere wei:e ,~ot of local s. We had a big parade and uh several hundred people. K: Uh huh , and uh vere t here-\\lere ·che:re·many klanSll'len in thttt parade? H: Well, I wou.ldn't know. They was some, ye.ab. K: Uh huh. M: I mean jes l ike 1 tell you befor e , the kla nsmen 1 met was tl fine people. K: teah.Uhh you-do you think that the uh these. white marches were as uh effective as the blacks mar ches? M: Hor e effective. K: Hor e effective? Why do you say that? H: Cause it-~e--we stunned 'em-we beat 'cm on t heir own ground, t hey quit par ad.in'. K: They quit paradin ' after that? SJ 2A Pogo 41 M\u003c:J\u003cenzic K: Yeah. I mean thoy-the.y vAa ju1t 1 ~ C'~' ,/ ... -:.1 ~ .-.un I anything they coul.d do ve could do it. too. K: Uh huh. H_.bAlv did-llov did tha blacks •••• ve vasn' scared to . aarch in niacr tOW'I\\ and we wsn' scared to go dovn tz~• 1t4w ,.,,., Wes ru.ly. X.: Ma ••• M: Bey, bubbat X: Uil M: n I '+ I 11tq,'/ Y14'N qn flt • tho other day. W.o.dn' o dAy dtdn' go by I didn' cet 25 or 30 lettore during that. time a day, you know. t: Vc.11, what vcra moat of people vritin'? H: Well, some wo.s good , ao111c vo.s bod. and, yuh knov, I ht'l.d several tllou\u0026o.nd lettcre •••• K: Bow did-how did tho morchcro uh how did the marchers react when uh uh l know sometimes the block marchers, you know, ~ere mat with SOQ violenco vhc.n they ..arched. When the white marchers uh •••• li: they-they never met vith violonco but that one night they w~re an a ,.r;1,,,\u003c4 \u0026af -ro Mf\"1z/ _!hey had tot. to a A c.urfew oo it and-aad they vould ju.st stop vhcn tb~y ~hat e t l'eet. they vcro just-it vndn't-I don't. think'lt:here vae: tlnybody· even hurt. I --.oybe a black eye or soeetbin' 0 like .• L - 'SJ 2A Page li2 KcXen.zie that , •n tbc:y were already black to eta~t vith. so ••.• K: Hov did-bow did the oarcher• take-take to it when t he uh, you baov, vhcn the bl \u0026ekl, vbe.n y 'all Mrched. through a black t010-n and they held up eigu like, you lcuov, ve love everybody and sayin' ve. love everybody? k: Ye.ah. they-they dt4o' pay no attention to th.at-they vas just tryin't-o act-go~othar foot 1'll the. door, t.bat's all .. nte)r­thcy vere v~l-achool~d on it they-- K: What do you mean vell-schooled1 M: \\lell 1 they kne1J vhat to do, you know •.•• K: Uh huh. II: _,,W.....l.ki. .\" '\"l\" c/\u003c\"''\" '\"',r__ __v ae doin' the teachin' n ' -Moatly k'idt\u003e you knov, it wa• vcTy few grown-ups •••• K: Yenh, M: Very fcv grown-upa, mostly d,:/c/,.-fL'\u003eI K: YC4h. Blacko? M: Ko\u0026tly kida. And photogTophere. K: ltlml, kids and photogX'opher1, huh? M: They tore up about -=•-'h\"'un=d:.:r\"ed::...;:cam=•.,r:.:•:.:•:.....----~---·I' d down a like to had vhat the CA1DOraa coat th\u0026y tore uv'\there that night • •• • K: Who-who was doin' the tcartn• up, the. ~bites uh •••• ? M: Juat anybody \\lf\\o got to on~ of them. Pago 43 Hc)i\\c_n.zie X: )Und of a huh, a free. for all on cameraa, huh? I K: Free for nl.l. Did'didn' get on ca=era, heh heh heh. K: llch heh heh, not if they broke them alll H: :,,,,, 'f? • Juot ,D 1krk«( eUmed 'em on the ground , oomc of ' erit they toOk 'l!m and tape recorders they took •••• K: And ... Md so you'd 11ay,_you lcnow, as atar a.-.s far as beipg, you bow, planned , organi..z·ed uh reai.et.once the-the whites er your rcncttoo would be uh would be uh liaitcd to these uh orgonhing these. marches and using the tvo va.ys to- t:vo vay radios to uh kee-p track of thinga and ttuf! .;.~ \"' K: To knov what vas gotn' on. K: Ub huh. But despite the-but th~ uh, you knov, counttrdemonstrators and tha stuff ~t ~'\"'\"'\"\"\"-\"r_ _,t\u003c,,,nCl.fo\u003c.!.,....:.,.__ __ ,.,.oo\"\"n\"'t\"a\"n\"oo\"'u\"'\"'----' H: Yeah, they uh that w-as somethi-n' thoy juo wonted to go a.wtmdn' on the bcocp and they wanted to uh ••••• Ul\u003cD OF SIDE 1) ~ 2A/Side 2 ~age 44 HcKenz:1e the stuff K: .... . conversation, ve vere just talldng aboutAdovn at the beach. H: Yuh. K: Well , )'OU know, we. \"'ere ta1kin'obout the vay those cameras H: verc get tin' broken and stuff, bov would you.-how would you assess . ot l;JJe-uh_-:\"':\"'';====------= =------- ? ~ ______ +~night. you 'know, in general OY-ot the vholc Jt, :ttrv They-they didn' eider• atandi.n' 7 ge{m.any pictures that night they were sooe out­on the aide gett:in1 eo.c though. K: But 1 aean 1n tcTiaS of , you know, ropcrting in, you know, the papers And stuff? What- what was a go.in' on-vhat- K: Well, Ou~ paper-our 'POPCT 'n Jock.soo.vUlc piiper 'n Palatka paper and nround reported 11-ke it wafJ. K: tb h111. H: And \\lh Daytona 'n Mi»1- Her\u003ctld 'n thing\u0026 they otrctched i.P··OUt-- vo hod uh some reporter\u0026 here by request 'n they vouldn' take nothin' unless they cai:ie d0t..-n._..,_z-;\"\"_.e..__ ,,.·._f._ _______ _ was aomethin' they didn' vant printed they vouldn' print it . K.: W'e.ll uh vho-who vas that-the. uh-? lut i.t H: OS, uh NBC-I don't knov vhf.ch one it vaa. va• eitha CBS or NBC outtf acksonvilJ.e 'n they co,... d\u003cund-everybody knew vbo they were •••• SJ 2A McKenzie • K: Ub huh. K: And uh when we Md the apcakJna in the park they'd take pictures-- They ware authorized to tak6 •ea and 1n fact they donated tub AocJ.cot City Hunt.in ' Club filt y dollar s one time . X.: Ob, yeahf Did-did uh cl1d acy people eve1: uh SQ.)' newsmen ever give donation.a to t ho club uh 1n order to get intervi.evs 'n stuff H: Ubhh noo , uh other than that Ol\\6 t:lae they give that to the club ya v f'ruW K: UK huh M: They were n:lcc boyo \u003ctit f a f Jack\u0026onville. K: Yeah. So you-you vould eay that the local paper• Teported prett~ prct~y fairly but uh Hio~i and Daytona-- H: Miruai 'n Daytona waa tho worst and uh even uh eome of your New York poperB not uh country papers , they sive us e, boy they writ4 un oll kinda letters •n tell us , don' t give •em nothin'. K: Mm tua. K: We give 1cm cvcrythinS they vanted for YEARS--'n look what they're doin' up hare. And vhy that? Y'lcnow •••• 'n al1 that troublo thoy bo.d in Nev .Jersoy, y 1 know •• • • X: So that e.r uh Nev York TiMI vaa pr·etty uh---------' M: Vell, they vere~ \"1// ,.,~.fr. SJ 2A Page 46 McKenzie K: They ve.re okayf H: they uh-thay uh-1 vlab't I had ay l ettera. \\o'C could see sooe of ·II 'eia but I don't have 'ea wbc.ra uh 1 caor put my bands on 'e::t. K: No7 H: I've got ' ea-kept 'ca ell but •••• K.: Would uh 1!-1! you could uh locate 'em would Y\u003cN aiod wy uh looking at ' cm. I-M: N~uh right nov l 've got uh o deal workin' We.re a man wnts to take. 'ea All o.nd vri.te A book on it ... . K: Uh huh. K: • • • and uh hQ oftcred -. uh pretty good sum for 'em and I - h• ,.//.,'I N, 111.y eon' e ~ ay oldeet eon, vhich uh \u0026aid , \"Daddy just keep 'em for the arandchildrin ' if nothin' cl8e11 • K: Uh bub. M: K: Who-vho i8 thie fcllow'?hom around hcrc?Er •• • JYIY :'.oN M: ~. yeah. K: No, l lbCt.tn t he guy that 'W'Ant1 to buy the. l etters to 'Write the book. M: Ye.ah, yea.h. He'• got a auecua he.re in town •••• K: Uh huh. K: • • • he's got Xt.nnedy'a car he got k.illed in 'n all ••• SJ 2A Page 47 McKenzie K: Y~ah, ao • •• M: But uh you'd be surprlsed at the. Nae./ed. / letters l got froa people-Kf.aei, eoae. of the people down in Hiall.1 there, l \"' I(: -can nica letter• I got •••• Yu.ht VhaJ: would they uaually uh eay to encourage you on, or •• • ? Wel.l , they W1'6 f'\"\"' up ;.OTth .oaUy, Don't give ' ea nothtn' •••• Yeabh • ••• y'know it' e juet uh--uh dust look vhat they' re doin' up there. 'n they-.nlong tbnt time th~y vere. there. rais.J..n' he.ll up tbe.l'c. !:: Uh. !\\uh. H: And the.tr schoola vae• s .lret.1-dy in- integrated and they were atil.l reioin' hell. I\u003c: Yeahh, M: And hnd been for years. l\u003c: Well-when do you think the uh violence uh uh died down around here? H: After tho uh conetit'1tion wae p4ssed. K: After the uh blllt M: Yuh. K: Civil righte bill! M: Yes, m1 hll. SJ 2A .P•\u0026• 48 HcKen%ie K: SO you uh- M: You over read it? K: I'vo oaver read the bill-I' ve rCfld acctione of it-1 never road the -whole bill •• •• M: Well, I have-U:i ~r my son's got it now, I had-I hod one of the first copios. K: Uh huh H: And t.hcrc'a nothin' in it. girln' wh.ito peoplo nothin' • •• • IC: Uh hub. H: ••• and vo. ju.s resented .it goin' tofcbool with 't-a-in fact_, they didn' go before that . K: Yo.ah, 1 bclic'Ve t'ltre was very little-very little integration before tbnt . But that was-that vne the 1G0in reason i t -it died down, huh? H: Well, 1 thirtk \u00260. Like I uy. you C4.\n1 t fight the fedorol government. K: Mm hm.Wh:-vhat about tbe uh, you k.nov, lik.e wa we.re talk.in' M: ..... earlier 'bout Manson's on-on- -you Jcnov, I've rend aevera,J. ertlc.le.s--.ftc.r it vu pas.s-td tha vhitu put v.p picket\u0026 on places that integrated. Bur 1 don't think the Munson vas one of ' ea, yeah., they picketed some-several of ' em. X: Woa-wor\u0026 you-were you i nvolved in orgonizlng those uh pickets? M: Oh, no, that was- I think w~o 6trtctly kl.an. SJ 2A Poge 49 ~eKenz1e K: That was strictly Klo.n huh? H: Uh n.ow I iu!Ow they picketed a caravan K: Yeah. M: And uh 1 don't-I don't now I ~on't recall tCQ ever picketin' the Mqnson-l ike I told ya lotta t imes I vas gone. 'n uh cause we organized different clubs all ov~r the Btate, you know, so •• • K! It '¢$n1 t uh clubc rel.ated7 M: .t(.4'1\"·' .u.l\"'-/'\".'c.\"/'-----like the. Anct:ent City Buntin' Club ••• , I,\\'.: Uh. hull. M: H: Wb:-and thi:s .;lust a uh give a uh to uh 6. c.,vf Well., uh 'n no, now, 'n let .... know vha.t vas goi n' on here, you knov, 'n uh ju.et like Ft. Pierce-they had uh quite a lot of trouble with' cm dO~\"D there y'know, 'n ••• which when they once got organized down there they put a $top to it. So, the easy way to-to beat 'em W3S just like-a nigger woi:ks for a white man- ~Hie.. n u\u003c--/h ' 'f· ,...t\u003ct ,../-e ... c: v does 'n if they-if they sonno show __.f .'-\"'4'-\"~-~__,,6'-'\"'''-/'--------­peoplc just laid 'em off. X: \u003eh hm. There ' s-there ' ~ a lot of that around here- in that time? .SJ 2A Pago 50 McKenzie K: Ohb, lota of it. =-=•L•---'•ount of it. You had to beat a man at hi.a own gue, you know ••• ~S K: Did the u.h-aft c-r the uh troublec\u0026 vere over did they go back to vork for the. uh t K: 1 Yeah, they vent back. Soo:e of •ea dld, some of •ea never vent back, y'bow •••• l.: \toll, you knov, g1ven-g1va.n the. 1-portance of the uh civil ri'ghte bill do-do you think that the. uh w-wb-tmat effect-do you think t'.hc. uh vt.ole.nc:e,you know, both the uh the dcaonatra.tiona And, you know, vhen people got beat up And stuff !t-it-do you thinlc. that had any-tJ.ny uh bearing on the uh bill getting poosed-thot uh that kind of- M: Ohh no, no, I don •c think oo cause ve never really had that the K: K: wuc.h cffocc tuu:o . They built up aioat ot it-ncwscaators did 'n one thing 'n o.nothcr-but we had very little f~st fights o.nd knockdown drogout••··· So, you think thete wns o lot of difference between the uh the way tho uh nove med1-tho uh tv and radio vould cover the events ond the wy the nevapaper'fovercd the events? Yeahh, 4hh tv-uh thi• on!.' outfit vc bad here they-they give uc a (olr chAko on it all the vay around. NO\"WV, I aade several K: M: ~ 2A Page 51 McKenzie record ins for one. in Miruni 1 n. he said be jus wanted the truth ) ;J a.nd he printed a nice piece • .. lenh. down th~re .•. \"?but he had to set another paper to do it. K: Well ~ what paper? What paper did he~? but H: I-I don't recall off-off hand but i t was4t was a Miami paper. K: Uh hub. K: And ubh uh I 1!2.ade one for Huntley- Brinkley • n u.h J:' was ub,-I had Rore tiJrle. on Huntley-Brinkley t imagine than t he !:resident of th.a United Stutes bad • •• • K: H: K: M: Bah hah bah hah_. What kind of $Cuff did they ask you wh,~ou\"\"'When you got on-? fl\"' Just/' f•cts. Yeah. Y'koow, ond uh what vas- 1 think it was uh more or less uh ,\"\"y Jt a/,,.+ r4\u003c z.;.,, i'1~ / .11 /_,/...,. .r / \"-\":.;«d K: Uh huh. So uh would you say overall the uhh the- ::;:;+ . M: ~ wa.s uh bunch o f uh lic.G moct of it on the-on the news side of it-- ;[ I\u0026 f ~e of it was alright- printed right~ but- K: Wlt-vhat~h.at kind of- 'SJ 2A Pago 52 McKenzie M: Uh knockdowns 'n uh sbootin' s 'n the beatins 'n most of that was t11q f :fctAs' K: Thta- that w4s not true? M: Not true, cause. th~y had one little e .x,.,,,,.,l/?f'... up in the 'one park one night 'n then -; they had this'bn King Street one -11\u003e• nisht- -other than that- ' n then the. ntsht ~ b q v got I shot •••. K: \"\"' hm. M: And uh ·really wasn' t--we.11, there was nobody hospitalized \u0026:P't:/..; d '._,. orYt,,' f-4,\"' when the boy got shot. K: Was that uh was be a membex of the uh Ancient City Huntin' Club? M: Xessir. K: Md they had been out hunting? M: Uhh they'd b-Oon huntin' all day that day and uh I think they I th~nk _ _::=:=============-- K: Uh huh. 1-I bellve, you know, when he was sho t his shotgun discharged throut:h the f loor? M: -'_,;~'-.''~--\"'\"'~\"--{\"_,.•,..•:..:1_r,cf_,.,..:\u003c..-Lr.-..'_tbe car. K: Yeah-yeah.,.. I know that .t.he timc4 I've gone hunt1n1 , you know, one of the-you know, lo'e-We aiways make it a point to :=oke sure our guns '1.re unloadM 1-n--whilcr·uh you're drivin' around in the car. M: I Well, the y haul -\"'~\"'---------!all the tiate-~\"\"-\"'---'- -\"4 in the back t/ir/tfc!'..lt they load ~. K: Yeah? M: What good U a empty gun? I L SJ 2A ~age 53 lfcJCenzie K: Well-it ' 6 just, you know,- K: ,~\" ,It',, ~~·,/-1c y0u got out. of car and lo.d 4 ·gun whatever you were gonna shoot bo gone. IC: Uh huh .• H: It's uh-it's juet a utter- hi.\u0026 gun vas uh on the-on the uh -=======-==-1 don' t know if it was loy.tn' across th1$ way or how it 'WAS lflyin' uh uhh I w nt d°\"\"\" thc:1:e the next moi:ntn' vherc t~ car wae-thcy kept the car ri.ght thcrQ and uh they'd had-did have a bi.rdahot hole-it was birds.hot _.._.,.,.,..~\"\"'Ii-=-'\"'~ ub',/ Jt: Mm Ju:o. Uhh now \u0026aid that you wor ked, you knov, pretty-pretty close.ly rlth sheriff DaVie and you also ira tu. of or·14n:lzing the uh uh lUrcbea 'o 1tuff you vorkcd pretty, you knov, fairly closely w~th ub Mr. Stone~ ••. M: Yeo.h. K: ••• end Hr. Lynch. Uh did Stoner and Lynch ever work much with Sheriff Datls. H: trb.h he vas-he. waa fri.end• of theirs •• •• K: Yeah K: I mean uhh he k:nev 1 cm. K: Vh !rub. H: See, wh-vben they come i nto town there hove n apea~in t hey had to have permits fJ\"om thl\\ sheriff's depart111Cnt 4nd the police dep3rtm.eot. SJ 2A HclCentie K: Uh huh. M: They vouldo't have 'ca vithout it. It: Uh bub. K: And they hod acveral. of 'ca be.re uh I don't tnov bow aany offha.od, y'Jcoov, but •••• K! Well, that' a:-that' a re.ally about a.11 the questions I bad prep-ared. la there any, you knov, laet-you tcnow; aUDDation. you'd 11ko t.o say that .oat., : you know, tho th1og: that really atat\u003eds out 1o your aind- 11: llcll, 'WC re.ally - - a-:w..-:2 \u003c.._, X: -about tho 'W'hol.c thing? K: --the thiu,g thnt atanda out in my mind about the whol e thing they- Chay foua.ht 'n completely lose ••• K: Uh huh . M: •• • ub that they utl come up horc to do somethin' that t hey-j/ i!.. . llub? tJh th4t, you know, juat like I eoid, zqu bad , e-- 6 \u003c'=--- hiG lawyer hero with ' :Im 'o all ' n they hod a white man by the e.·/•t; / ,'114-I Olllr name of __ .tJ=•'lv\u003e\"'\" \"''\"\"'\"'\"'\"\"'\"\"'\"'\"O\"''\"\"r\"•'---t~ on the beach with a bunch of n.tggore 'n they got //'·\"' ri' over there and they just-juet didn't goin nothin'. X: Uh huh. K: it'• uh-the only one really hurt, I iug.tne, K: M: SJ 2A )'age 55 McK.cmzic was me havin' · to go· to court so many times. Ycohh. ./ I/ t?r tr·~'\"J I:. But uhhhh l~I-1-1 definitel y didn' see vhere t hey gain-ed anything. Other than they used St. Augustine t6 helP. get this thing passed, y' know. K: Yeahh, .so you think that uh the march end stuff did h3ve an effect on t he uh pa.saage of M: Well, uh I-t don't think eo cause t hey never re.ally marched but\u003cPout once. or twice, thrc.e times maybe at the oost and K: Mm hmn. M: Cause uh peopl e- people go down there 'n stand around 'n watch 'cm, y'know, and uh and if they tried to overdo it th~ the.y got put back in their place JN ci/-11!/ 4 ' t ,fr if t hey tried-if they tnarched quietly ..,.,t \"'\"''·\"\"'-\"\"'\"\"'''-/.\",\" \"'''\"-/-~,\"'\"''\" ·.c:,._,.._4,\"\".:'..:.Y.:;~/,.._1_'\"6\"1'~'· X: Did you know a fellow from Jacksonville named Robert Pi tman? r')e...._1;,,, 1 I M: I know Gentry, yeah. Ye.ah, K: Gentxy? Cause I think you- you- he tcstif-er yeah it was his-his testimony before the uh House on Unat11erican Activ1tie6 Com-mittee that uh pl aced you aG a grand officer of-of t he kl.an dovn here. That vas~ that was false or uh what? M: Well, 1 never kne~ Gentry that good- · ·SJ 2A ·Page S6 K: No? M: - 1 just knew of him. IC: Uh huh•· H: Uhh though it waa ne.ve.r proved for a fact that 1 vu uh head of uh i t . I K: Uh huh. And you 1,)(/01{ ? H: Well. like 1 said. I vent to some of tha. mccttne ' n I vadn't-fact, ttll of tho r.oootin ' B had her-e I went to • cm . T\u003c: Ye.ab. M: Uh um:ri. t-I don't know hov you get io. the kl.an e.ven. K: Uh ooh. H: Hov you go at gcttiD' in it. X: Uh huh, I see. Well, you know, uhh. (END OP TAPE- SIDE 2)","Ku Klux Klan -- The New York Times -- Ancient City Gun Club -- Ancient City Hunting Club -- St. Augustine Police Department -- New England Group -- Monson Motor Lodge -- Santa Maria Restaurant -- Old Slave Market -- Bombing -- Civil Rights Rally -- Civil Rights March -- Klan Rally -- Klan March -- Wade-in -- Shooting Death of William Kinard -- Police Brutality -- Civil Rights Act of 1964 -- Florida Spring Project of the SCM and SCLC"],"dc_format":["application/pdf"],"dcterms_identifier":null,"dcterms_language":null,"dcterms_publisher":null,"dc_relation":null,"dc_right":["http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/CNE/1.0/"],"dcterms_is_part_of":null,"dcterms_subject":["Civil rights--United States--Florida"],"dcterms_title":["Halstead 'Hoss' Manucy : Transcribed Interview"],"dcterms_type":["Text"],"dcterms_provenance":["Proctor Library"],"edm_is_shown_by":null,"edm_is_shown_at":["http://civilrights.flagler.edu/cdm/ref/collection/p15415coll1/id/1042"],"dcterms_temporal":null,"dcterms_rights_holder":null,"dcterms_bibliographic_citation":null,"dlg_local_right":["Flagler College is not the copyright owner for this item, nor can the College provide a copy of this item. Please contact the contributing organization to obtain a copy and permission to reproduce this item."],"dcterms_medium":["transcripts"],"dcterms_extent":["56 pages"],"dlg_subject_personal":["Manucy, Holsted, 1919-1995","Kallal, Edward, Jr.","Hayling, Robert Bagner","Peabody, Mary E. (Mary Elizabeth), 1891-1981","Simpson, John Milton Bryan, 1903-1987","King, Martin Luther, Jr., 1929-1968","Stoner, Jesse Benjamin, 1924-2005","Lynch, Connie (Charles Conley), 1912-1972","Manucy, Halstead \"Tommy\"","Manucy, Alonzo \"Bubba\""],"dcterms_subject_fast":null,"fulltext":null},{"id":"ugabma_wsbn_wsbn07055","title":"Shaffely in Atlanta Opposing E.R.A.; Now Spokeswoman Comments On","collection_id":"ugabma_wsbn","collection_title":"WSB-TV Newsfilm Collection","dcterms_contributor":["Gunnaway,","Schlafly, Phyllis"],"dcterms_spatial":["United States, Georgia, Fulton County, Atlanta, 33.749, -84.38798"],"dcterms_creator":["WSB-TV (Television station : Atlanta, Ga.)"],"dc_date":["1976-02-21"],"dcterms_description":["Shaffely in Atlanta Opposing E.R.A.; Now Spokeswoman Comments On","Shaffley","Title supplied by cataloger."],"dc_format":["video/mp4"],"dcterms_identifier":["Clip number: wsbn07055"],"dcterms_language":["eng"],"dcterms_publisher":null,"dc_relation":null,"dc_right":["http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/"],"dcterms_is_part_of":["Original found in the WSB-TV newsfilm collection."],"dcterms_subject":["Equal rights amendments--United States","Women","Discrimination"],"dcterms_title":["Shaffely in Atlanta Opposing E.R.A.; Now Spokeswoman Comments On"],"dcterms_type":["MovingImage"],"dcterms_provenance":["Walter J. Brown Media Archives and Peabody Awards Collection"],"edm_is_shown_by":["https://crdl.usg.edu/id:ugabma_wsbn_wsbn07055"],"edm_is_shown_at":["https://crdl.usg.edu/id:ugabma_wsbn_wsbn07055"],"dcterms_temporal":["1976-02-21"],"dcterms_rights_holder":null,"dcterms_bibliographic_citation":["Cite as: wsbn07055, Shaffely in Atlanta Opposing E.R.A.; Now Spokeswoman Comments On, WSB-TV newsfilm collection, reel 2227, 59:31/60:24, Walter J. Brown Media Archives and Peabody Awards Collection, The University of Georgia Libraries, Athens, Georgia"],"dlg_local_right":null,"dcterms_medium":["moving images","news","unedited footage"],"dcterms_extent":["1 clip (about 53 secs.): color, sound ; 16 mm."],"dlg_subject_personal":null,"dcterms_subject_fast":null,"fulltext":null},{"id":"dlg_bald_am-431","title":"--We'll squeeze on through if it's O.K., folks!-- / Baldy, [1976 Feb. 20]","collection_id":"dlg_bald","collection_title":"Baldy Editorial Cartoons, 1946-1982, 1997: Clifford H. Baldowski Editorial Cartoons at the Richard B. Russell Library.","dcterms_contributor":null,"dcterms_spatial":["United States, Georgia, 32.75042, -83.50018"],"dcterms_creator":["Baldowski, Clifford H., 1917-1999"],"dc_date":["1976-02-20"],"dcterms_description":["The Clifford Baldowski cartoon depicts a mobile home, labeled \"A-2 mobile homes,\" with a sign that says \"wide load, new 14 ft. limits applied for.\" It is driving down the road knocking off cars and people while it creates cracks and potholes in the road. If has run over a sign that reads \"slow traffic, keep right.\""],"dc_format":["image/jp2"],"dcterms_identifier":null,"dcterms_language":["eng"],"dcterms_publisher":["[Atlanta, Ga. : Atlanta Constitution, 1976 Feb. 20]"],"dc_relation":null,"dc_right":["http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/"],"dcterms_is_part_of":["Clifford H. Baldowski Editorial Cartoon Collection, Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia Libraries, Athens, Georgia"],"dcterms_subject":["Mobile homes--Law and legislation--Georgia"],"dcterms_title":["--We'll squeeze on through if it's O.K., folks!-- / Baldy, [1976 Feb. 20]"],"dcterms_type":["StillImage"],"dcterms_provenance":["Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies"],"edm_is_shown_by":["https://dlg.usg.edu/record/dlg_bald_am-431#item"],"edm_is_shown_at":["https://dlg.usg.edu/record/dlg_bald_am-431"],"dcterms_temporal":null,"dcterms_rights_holder":null,"dcterms_bibliographic_citation":["Cite as: [Title of the cartoon], [Date of cartoon], editorial cartoon by Clifford H. Baldowski, Clifford H. Baldowski Editorial Cartoon Collection, Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia Libraries, Athens, presented in the Digital Library of Georgia."],"dlg_local_right":["The Baldowski cartoons created for The Atlanta Journal-Constitution are licensed to the Richard B. 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